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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HomeSchool » Math issues.....
Math issues..... [message #820566] Mon, 25 September 2017 21:42 Go to next message
Tracy in Peru is currently online Tracy in Peru
Messages: 7973
Registered: April 2005
Location: Trujillo, Peru
Senior Member
I am homeschooling granddaughter with dd, as they are the same age.

Dg has a math issue that I haven't run into before. She is having a really hard time understanding the relationship between numbers. She is almost 7, but having difficulty grasping the concept of "zero" or the next number or the number before. I've gone over the terms before, after, next, last, etc. etc again and again and she is just not getting it. Adding or taking away zero is an issue, as is adding or taking away one, much less the other numbers. She has some facts memorized, but I am not confident she understands because of these issues.

We have completed the first grade math book and I was hoping with repetition things would come. WE've spent three weeks doing nothing but flash cards and nothing is helping.

I don't know what to do. She is reading and writing well and is a good student. But I don't know how to help this.....move on? more flash cards? more review? Without a plan, I don't know if I should split up math into individual math classes or not. Dd doesn't have all her math facts memorized yet, but can figure them out and is well on her way. I am confident she is ready to move forward and only needs continued work for everything to gel. But I am not sure what to do with granddaughter.


In Him--Tracy
Re: Math issues..... [message #820570 is a reply to message #820566 ] Mon, 25 September 2017 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PamE
Messages: 3792
Registered: April 2005
Location: AZ (but it's a DRY heat!)
Senior Member
Is there any way to have her tested for a math disability that might pinpoint exactly *how* she struggles?

Our oldest son (eventually diagnosed autistic) couldn't count a group of things, couldn't add/subtract, etc. until my mil started tutoring him using Math-U-See. That was the key that unlocked things for him. I say that because he was able to progress through about grade 5 and then make some strides with the programs they used at school. If I were to test him today he would probably only score at a third or maybe fourth grade level in math. But... it did help him immensely at the time.

Just throwing that out there fwiw. I know MUS isn't the end all be all for every problem! Wink


I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us. ~Phil 3:13-14~
Re: Math issues..... [message #820606 is a reply to message #820566 ] Mon, 02 October 2017 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cammie  is currently offline Cammie
Messages: 1861
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tennessee
Senior Member
Dyscalculia, its the "dyslexia" of math.


Cammie
Re: Math issues..... [message #820614 is a reply to message #820566 ] Wed, 04 October 2017 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Have you considered using manipulatives instead?

We used a variety of DIY Montessori inspired methods. I am going to assume she already understands how to identify the written numerals 0-10, so I'm going to skip that part.

First you'd start out with "number rods" to help a child "see" numbers.

I'll include a link for a free printable in just a moment, as well as a step-by-step intro; however, before going to the first step, I would suggest spending a couple of days with just the printable, arranging them from smallest to largest (always using the same color scheme, always lined up on the left). This is sort of training her eye for their lengths.

Here's a link for a step by step process, to be completed over a period of time (always following the child): http://www.infomontessori.com/mathematics/numbers-through-te n-number-rods-and-cards.htm

And here is a link for a free number rod printable, so you don't have to buy the actual rods: http://www.hiphomeschoolmoms.com/montessori-number-rods-pres entation-free-printable/

For Jonah, paper isn't really "good enough" so if you are handy enough, you could look at the model from the link and create the same thing with some paint, paint stir sticks and a little saw.

Then you begin to teach her that there is a quantity that goes along with each number. This will include the concept of zero.

Here is a link for a step by step process, to be completed over a period of time (always following the child):
http://www.infomontessori.com/mathematics/numbers-through-te n-spindle-boxes.htm

The purchase of a spindle box is $$$, so an alternative would be to visit a dollar store and by plastic single drawer organizers (I can't find a picture of a plastic one online, but it would basically be a version of this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Honey-Can-Do-Steel-Mesh-Drawer-Or ganizer-Silver/34163736 ). It's important that they are all the same color otherwise the child will think that there is an association that isn't there. Pick up a pack of unsharpened yellow pencils - you'll need a total of 55 for this work. You'll notice on the link above, that you'll have to label all 11 boxes (0-10). She'll sort them, and it'll more or less become a self correcting work...but you'll comment that "nothing" means zero. Instead of pencils, you could just as easily use popsicle sticks, which might be a little cheaper, come to think of it. If she's really having a hard time with math and willingness, you might offer to dye popsicle sticks in her favorite color (I can send you a link if you need a how-to) before introducing this work. (In Montessori we are supposed to call everything "work" but Jonah was much more receptive for me saying "game".) Tell her you're dyeing the popsicle sticks for a game, and she'll at least be intrigued.

To be honest, I started the zero = nothing concept with Jonah by opting to share a donut. I told him he could have everything in the middle, held it up to my eye...and he said, "But there's nothing there." I used the donut's "hole" and told him that meant "zero" and that zero means nothing. (Then I halved the donut so there wouldn't be an issue.)

If you look on the link, though, the left side bar has a link "concept of zero" that's really a fun little game the two girls can play together. Sort of a Simon Says. Use it to reinforce the schoolwork without their realizing.

Building on the above, move on to Cards and Counters:

Here is a link to a step by step process. (I was not so stringent on the order in which the counters were laid out, but I wasn't quite as versed as I maybe should have been...still, we didn't have issues). http://www.infomontessori.com/mathematics/numbers-through-te n-cards-and-counters.htm

I printed cards out (or you can find some online for free) and began with using flat glass beads, the kind you fill vases with (again, makes sure they are all the same color). I expanded on this, to keep my guy's interest, with different little manipulatives (mini-dinosaurs are counters we still use, but I also used pom pom balls that matched the season, smooth pebbles, mini erasers, acorns, small buttons, that sort of thing).

Next will be bead bars, which preps her for math problems

These can be a hefty investment, but can be DIY a variety of ways. I will let you look them up, if you're interested, but I made some DIY things from cutting MardiGras type beads from the party store.

The best how-to I can find, short limit, is this one: http://plantingpeas.com/montessori-short-bead-stair/

It includes a video...and looking at the bottom of the page, I see she did a similar spindle box as mentioned above.

So...this is a start, and I hope it helps. I really do believe that Jonah, like his mother, would be lost if left to a world of two-dimensions and worksheets/flash cards. Your granddaughter may need manipulatives, too.


Peace
Re: Math issues..... [message #820615 is a reply to message #820614 ] Wed, 04 October 2017 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tracy in Peru is currently online Tracy in Peru
Messages: 7973
Registered: April 2005
Location: Trujillo, Peru
Senior Member
Thanks ladies.

We have used a number of manipulatives in the past. We've an abacus, a number line, "ten sticks", and beans glued to popcicle sticks, and have used legos.

I had her mom go over things in Spanish. Tomorrow granddaughter is meeting with a bilingual teacher. We are trying to rule out that it is a language problem. I don't think it is, but I want to do that first.

Dg also has an uncle that is a primary grade teacher, so we will speak to him for more ideas. He is quite a distance away, so he can't work with her directly. I just go the name today of someone that does learning disability testing if we need it.

At this point, we aren't doing math. I don't want her to memorize the flashcards, because that will cover the problem. Dd can wait a few weeks, but then we will split the math class if that is necessary.

Hopefully, caught now it is just something little. I dont' want the problem to grow.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 October 2017 20:28]


In Him--Tracy
Re: Math issues..... [message #820671 is a reply to message #820615 ] Sun, 15 October 2017 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
Messages: 9593
Registered: April 2005
Location: Small Town New Hampshire
Senior Member
When the kids were little, someone had me give them each a roll of blank adding machine paper and have them start writing numbers...every day reading the numbers on the "number line" and then adding to the end.

[Updated on: Sun, 15 October 2017 16:52]


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Math issues..... [message #820672 is a reply to message #820671 ] Sun, 15 October 2017 16:51 Go to previous message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
Messages: 9593
Registered: April 2005
Location: Small Town New Hampshire
Senior Member
Next, last and before also have the implication of left and right...the Bible talks about kids that do not yet know their left from their right...is she clear on that yet? Zero as a lack of something and a placeholder is kind of a complex thing. First, last, second, third are kind of ordinal numbers and that is kind of a complex concept for some kids, too. Have you tried m and m or whatever sweet or fruit snack is appropriate math?


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
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