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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » The bathroom issue....
The bathroom issue.... [message #816824] Sat, 14 May 2016 11:53 Go to next message
Tracy in Peru  is currently offline Tracy in Peru
Messages: 7973
Registered: April 2005
Location: Trujillo, Peru
Senior Member
I just returned from a month stay in the States. All I can say about the "bathroom issue" is arRRRRRRRGh!

I know there are much more sides to the issue, BUT I can not believe the debate on this. We are talking about going to the bathroom...a pubic bathroom no less. If I am so desperate that I am going to actually use a pubic bathroom, I could care less who is in the stall next to me. It is an EMERGENCY.

The topic is PUBLIC BATHROOMS and discussing our need for them. If I actually needed to use a public bathroom, I would be mortified to discuss it with anyone. I don't "share" the bathroom with my dh, and if I need to use the "facilities" I don't announce it to anyone, just excuse myself.



In Him--Tracy
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816825 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sat, 14 May 2016 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MicheleB  is currently offline MicheleB
Messages: 4489
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
Opted out of the discussion. Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2016 13:35]


Michele
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816826 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sat, 14 May 2016 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
Messages: 5498
Registered: April 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Senior Member
I'm not too concerned. Given the state of homophobia in our country (yes, even now!), I seriously doubt a man who isn't in the process of being transgendered would enter a ladies room. Why would they want to call attention to themselves? If the person is transgendered male-->female, they would probably look more or less like a woman. So it may already have happened to us, and we just didn't realize. How on earth are "they" going to check everyone's birth certificate to see what sex is on there at the entrance to the rest room???

My bet is that folks in the process of transgendering will opt to use the single stall option if it is available.

I think it is highly unlikely that we will be subjected to finding a man at the sink when we leave the stall to wash our hands. If we have a law that insists that people use the bathroom for the sex on their birth certificate, it might be more likely, because women who have transitioned to male would be required to use the women's room.

I think folks should relax and really think this through!

Just before I retired, we had a student who was in the process of transgendering from female-->male. That student used the single occupant bathrooms in the school. They did not feel it was appropriate to use the girls' rooms after they began to look more masculine, but were not comfortable with the boys' rooms, either. It must be very awkward for those in the process of transgendering, especially in school where they were known to friends for years as one gender and now are changing. It presents problems when going to college as well. This particular student chose a college which offered special housing options for such students.

Our school provides private locker room setups for kids who are uncomfortable with the communal locker room/shower set up. Lots of kids use them for a variety of reasons, from extreme modesty to very early or very late puberty to physical deformities to...well, there are many, many reasons why kids might choose more private changing areas.

Why wouldn't we want to provide options that make everyone comfortable?

(Note: I have not stated my opinion on the transgender thing...but we live in a world that whatever our opinion, we need to accept that it exists in a tiny percentage of our population. I heard recently from a credible source that the frequency is about 0.1 or 0.2% of the population).


Lisa T.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816827 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sat, 14 May 2016 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PamE
Messages: 3792
Registered: April 2005
Location: AZ (but it's a DRY heat!)
Senior Member
My fear is not of the transgenders using the restrooms. My fear is of the predators who will take advantage of the opportunity.


I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us. ~Phil 3:13-14~
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816829 is a reply to message #816827 ] Sat, 14 May 2016 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
PamE wrote on Sat, 14 May 2016 15:51

My fear is not of the transgenders using the restrooms. My fear is of the predators who will take advantage of the opportunity.

This is the only complaint I've heard. And the only argument back to this doesn't really address it, and instead makes it a phobic statement about gender.

Personally, I try very hard not to use public bathrooms. That's been a life-long thing beginning in middle school. When single unit bathrooms became a thing, I was tap dancing. Now that I have a little one along with me, and a boy at that, I'm super glad for that option.

I've already read about men appearing in women's locker rooms and bathrooms causing a rukus. I know at least five individuals in my life who have confided in me that their molestation happened in public bathrooms when they were children. I know of one individual who actually was a molester of underage youth and his prime hunting ground was the public bathroom of a large library.


Peace
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816830 is a reply to message #816826 ] Sat, 14 May 2016 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Lisa T. wrote on Sat, 14 May 2016 12:59

How on earth are "they" going to check everyone's birth certificate to see what sex is on there at the entrance to the rest room???

It's not about biological sex though, it's about gender.

Lisa T. wrote on Sat, 14 May 2016 12:59


I think it is highly unlikely that we will be subjected to finding a man at the sink when we leave the stall to wash our hands.

In certain places (I go very granola/hippie places here in town) this has happened without the gender issue being a political "thing" yet. As far as I could tell it was more about pushing societies limits.



I don't ever think there is a going backwards in this. Ultimately this is going to go the way of service animals. There's nothing identifying an animal as a service animal, one isn't required to show proof/identification. Heck, you aren't even allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal. This is going to be the same situation. It's already been done, and it'll become the norm by the time my little one is an adult.


Peace
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816832 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sun, 15 May 2016 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

My opinion is still forming. My gut reaction was like others I've heard, "Predators!" But in really thinking this through, I don't think this will increase that so much. Second, as my daughter said, men who are changing are probably already wearing dresses/women's clothing and are already going in there, and we have no idea anyway. Unless s/he has a beard or something, we probably wouldn't notice. Personally, I *really* *really* don't want a strange man in the stall next to mine. *Really.* I can't tell you how much that bothers me! I hope we'll move more and more to "onesies" (individual stalls).

Also note that surgery isn't the issue. Folks don't have to be physically changing to "self-identify" with the opposite gender, so there's no saying a man can't feel like a woman and use the women's restroom (and vice versa) regardless of appearance.

What I suspect is that this is not so much about where folks go to the bathroom, but another step is pushing not only tolerance but acceptance of a lifestyle.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816834 is a reply to message #816832 ] Sun, 15 May 2016 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Lisa R. wrote on Sun, 15 May 2016 07:50

What I suspect is that this is not so much about where folks go to the bathroom, but another step is pushing not only tolerance but acceptance of a lifestyle.

Strongly agree with this thought, Lisa.


Peace
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816848 is a reply to message #816832 ] Tue, 17 May 2016 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
Messages: 8308
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Lisa R. wrote on Sun, 15 May 2016 05:50

..Personally, I *really* *really* don't want a strange man in the stall next to mine. *Really.* I can't tell you how much that bothers me! I hope we'll move more and more to "onesies" (individual stalls).

...

What I suspect is that this is not so much about where folks go to the bathroom, but another step is pushing not only tolerance but acceptance of a lifestyle.


My thoughts!

Unfortunately I am one who *does* need the public restroom frequently. I hate that women (bio-women) once again, are at the bottom of the priority list. This is anti-woman in my opinion. Why can't I have one little corner of privacy?? Why do I have to give that up for a fraction of society?? The fact that cross-dressing and/or trans people use the restroom of preference doesn't bother me (seen several over my many years of public restrooms). It's the fact it's now *mandated* and I'm labeled a hater because I disagree. Wow!

I don't want a big sign saying to *all* men that they can go where they please. And, yes, the predator thing is a real threat. Men are typically the sexual predators, women are typically the sexual prey. Think about it.


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816865 is a reply to message #816824 ] Wed, 18 May 2016 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
Messages: 4572
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tennessee
Senior Member
I have a couple of thoughts:

1. This is not a new thing. So-called transgender people have always been using public restrooms.

2. The media likes to blow certain issues out of proportion in order to distract us from worse stuff the government is doing. It's all a smoke screen.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816890 is a reply to message #816824 ] Fri, 20 May 2016 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rosemary-MI  is currently offline Rosemary-MI
Messages: 1314
Registered: April 2005
Location: Lower mid Michigan
Senior Member
I think the problem is that now men have a LEGAL right to be there as before they did not. Before it was against the law to use that restroom. So now we have skewed legal problems from this.

That's not to say that changing the law will or will not prevent anything from happening. Crimes happen all the time and people ignore laws. But now it will be harder to press charges for indecent exposure against a man in a ladies room.

~Rosemary


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816897 is a reply to message #816890 ] Sat, 21 May 2016 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Rosemary-MI wrote on Fri, 20 May 2016 10:40

I think the problem is that now men have a LEGAL right to be there as before they did not. Before it was against the law to use that restroom. So now we have skewed legal problems from this.

That's not to say that changing the law will or will not prevent anything from happening. Crimes happen all the time and people ignore laws. But now it will be harder to press charges for indecent exposure against a man in a ladies room.

~Rosemary

This is pretty much the valid complaint.

The fear is that unwanted illegal/threatening incidents will increase now that there is a covering by the law by those who would take advantage of such. That's the same with other laws, is it not? Conservatives have been on the other side of this argument with gun laws. Liberals have been on this side before (at least in my neck of the woods) when it came to rehousing pedophiles in neighborhoods.

The debate between transexual and transgender "definitions" and whether or not it was socially acceptable (or collectively overlooked) in the past when a member of the opposite sex entered the restrooms, is not the question - and though I believe it to be a smoke screen, I would imagine in different areas and sections of our country this is a less shocking law than to others. The question is one of the legitimacy of the charge: does a legal covering leave those vulnerable even more vulnerable to those who abuse the new law? I think there are too many things muddying the water, nationally, to have sincere discourse.

[Updated on: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:57]


Peace
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816902 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sat, 21 May 2016 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
Messages: 4572
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tennessee
Senior Member
I'm in the service industry. It's common courtesy to say sir and ma'am. Pretty soon, I expect to be retrained not to do that.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #816903 is a reply to message #816902 ] Sun, 22 May 2016 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Leigh wrote on Sat, 21 May 2016 23:31

I'm in the service industry. It's common courtesy to say sir and ma'am. Pretty soon, I expect to be retrained not to do that.


Yeah...that's gonna be awkward for us southerners!!


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817025 is a reply to message #816865 ] Thu, 02 June 2016 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin H.  is currently offline Robin H.
Messages: 3046
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Yes, Leigh, a smokescreen. Check the man behind the curtain.

Robin H.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817156 is a reply to message #816824 ] Sun, 12 June 2016 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
Messages: 6501
Registered: April 2005
Location: NW rural Illinois
Senior Member

SUPER LATE into this conversation.

I don't care about the bathroom issue very much. I never let my children into the bathrooms alone when they were younger and used stalls.

I DO care about the locker rooms. Not that it affects my family personally, but it is a concern for me - especially concerning predators.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817172 is a reply to message #817156 ] Mon, 13 June 2016 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin H.  is currently offline Robin H.
Messages: 3046
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Senior Member
Yes, me too, Kate.

Robin H.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817490 is a reply to message #817172 ] Fri, 08 July 2016 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michele (Queen of Cheap)  is currently offline Michele (Queen of Cheap)
Messages: 5816
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member
The easy solution is for public venues to have nothing by private bathrooms that anyone can use one at a time.


Michele, The Organic Queen of Cheap!
(aka Shelly the Swamp Frog)

Happily posting on CHF since 1995


Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817508 is a reply to message #817490 ] Sat, 09 July 2016 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Michele (Queen of Cheap) wrote on Fri, 08 July 2016 16:32

The easy solution is for public venues to have nothing by private bathrooms that anyone can use one at a time.


I'm hoping it goes that route.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817857 is a reply to message #816824 ] Tue, 02 August 2016 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
janetR  is currently offline janetR
Messages: 1937
Registered: March 2010
Location: TX
Senior Member
And another perspective from the mom of a daughter who thinks she should be a man: In her deluded (mentally ill) condition, should she think she needs to use the men's room, what will happen to her in there?


JanetR
daughter of the King since 1980
wife to dh since 1981
mom to five of the most incredible adults on the planet, one wonderful 18yo, and grandma to two bouncy grandsons
Re: The bathroom issue.... [message #817946 is a reply to message #817857 ] Wed, 10 August 2016 14:43 Go to previous message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
Messages: 8308
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
janetR wrote on Tue, 02 August 2016 21:30

And another perspective from the mom of a daughter who thinks she should be a man: In her deluded (mentally ill) condition, should she think she needs to use the men's room, what will happen to her in there?



I've wondered the same Janet.


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
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