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[Support our Advertisers!] Contributions from our Members:   Hold On Tight PLEASE! ... I was thinking about some of the messages I've been reading from homeschoolers going through some tough times with their homeschool. It seems like a hurricane is in our midst. When it comes to homeschooling -- What a difference experience makes ... experience doesn't make much of a difference. [Support our Advertisers!]
Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Santa and Sunday School ...
Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814939] Tue, 08 December 2015 20:41 Go to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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Registered: January 2006
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I'm not sure if this is a Hot Topic or not, but since It's santa I will put it here.

As the Children's Ministry Coordinator at my church I am often in with the children these days. Usually during out opening time, and then if we are having a Sunday where we have an extended craft and free playtime.

With Christmas fast approaching the discussion of Santa has started to be part of the kids conversation. Now, I don't have a problem with kids talking about what Santa is bringing them, or seeing him at the mall, or writing him letters etc. But, this past Sunday the whole "Santa is not real", "Yes he is", "No he's not", "yes he is" ...started at one of the tables, followed by ... "well, the tooth fairy isn't real" ... I tried to quiet the conversation asking them to talk about something else, and gave the boy who made the tooth fairy comment my "mom" look. His tone indicated he was trying to badger the little girl.

So, what do you do? As a person in leadership, how do you address this with the kids? How do you quiet the conversation without coming down on a particular child's beliefs? .. Do you just redirect the conversation saying that's something to talk about with their folks?

I'm not sure there is a win here. If you say "nope, there is not a Santa" you have spoken the truth, but broken the hearts of half your kids AND gone against what parents are doing in their homes. If you say "Of course there is a Santa" you have lied, confused half the kids who know the truth, and gone against what parents are doing in their homes.

Thoughts?

(we personally did not do Santa, and taught our kids that it was not their job to tell their friends but the parents job. It worked for the most part.)

[Updated on: Tue, 08 December 2015 20:42]


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814940 is a reply to message #814939 ] Tue, 08 December 2015 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ReneeL.inMN
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Registered: April 2005
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Personally, I would redirect the conversation so as to respect the parents and children.


ReneeL.inMN
25yos, 23yos, 13 yod I guess I am old enough for adult children.

My stomach hurts, but I still choose joy! :-)

Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814942 is a reply to message #814939 ] Tue, 08 December 2015 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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That's actually my plan. In fact I was thinking of sending an email to my teachers to remind them to keep their ears open to the kids conversation and be ready to re-direct if necessary.


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814944 is a reply to message #814939 ] Tue, 08 December 2015 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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"Boys and girls, Santa Clause is something to talk to your parents about. Right now, let's head to Sunday School and talk about Jesus!" Or whatever version is appropriate.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814949 is a reply to message #814944 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Lisa R. wrote on Tue, 08 December 2015 21:31

"Boys and girls, Santa Clause is something to talk to your parents about. Right now, let's head to Sunday School and talk about Jesus!" Or whatever version is appropriate.

Yep, this would be my reply!


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814952 is a reply to message #814939 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara K (NC)
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What about teaching the children about the original man, Bishop Nicholas of Myra, who started the tradition of leaving gifts. His really is quite a story. He eventually was martyred. But my point is that there was a real man who inspired all those stories. (except maybe the reindeer bit....)


Barbara K (NC)

"And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." 2 Cor 9:8


Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814953 is a reply to message #814952 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Barbara K (NC) wrote on Wed, 09 December 2015 06:45

What about teaching the children about the original man, Bishop Nicholas of Myra, who started the tradition of leaving gifts. His really is quite a story. He eventually was martyred. But my point is that there was a real man who inspired all those stories. (except maybe the reindeer bit....)



Excellent...we taught that to our children as well. Although I suppose you'd still have to dance around the "real person" v. "myth" idea if you're trying to keep family traditions/beliefs intact.

[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2015 06:51]


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814956 is a reply to message #814953 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karen in TN  is currently offline Karen in TN
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Lisa R. wrote on Wed, 09 December 2015 05:50

Barbara K (NC) wrote on Wed, 09 December 2015 06:45

What about teaching the children about the original man, Bishop Nicholas of Myra, who started the tradition of leaving gifts. His really is quite a story. He eventually was martyred. But my point is that there was a real man who inspired all those stories. (except maybe the reindeer bit....)



Excellent...we taught that to our children as well. Although I suppose you'd still have to dance around the "real person" v. "myth" idea if you're trying to keep family traditions/beliefs intact.


I wouldn't go there in Sunday School with small children. It just opens up the discussion instead of shutting it down. Starting here means you must end up with . . . he's not STILL alive. You might give this info to parents that ask advice on how to handle it.

Would go with redirect. Love the Let's drop the Santa talk and go talk about Jesus line.

Karen in tn


wife of 31 years to Richard, Mom to Matthew (26), Adra 24, Shelby 15, Samuel 13, and Ruby Grace 11. Homeschooling for 19 years.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814958 is a reply to message #814944 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diana P.  is currently offline Diana P.
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Lisa R. wrote on Tue, 08 December 2015 22:31

"Boys and girls, Santa Clause is something to talk to your parents about. Right now, let's head to Sunday School and talk about Jesus!" Or whatever version is appropriate.


This would be my response, also, along with the possibility of teaching about the Bishop of Myra.




Grace & Peace,
Diana

"Do your best, then rest"

Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814971 is a reply to message #814939 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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WE are going with the re-direct approach, as well as sending a letting to our parents asking their help in the situation.

Basically asking parents whose kids have figured it out or who don't participate in the Santa tradition to gently remind their children it is the other child's mommy and daddy's' job to talk to them about Santa, etc. Our official position as leaders is to leave that responsibility to the parents.

The issue is usually the kids who don't believe feeling they need to tell all the other kids.


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814974 is a reply to message #814971 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Registered: August 2007
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Quote:

Basically asking parents whose kids have figured it out or who don't participate in the Santa tradition to gently remind their children it is the other child's mommy and daddy's' job to talk to them about Santa, etc. Our official position as leaders is to leave that responsibility to the parents.

The issue is usually the kids who don't believe feeling they need to tell all the other kids.


You know I have too much time on my hands when I jump into a concealed carry thread and then one on Santa Claus!

In an ideal world I would agree that it's the parents responsibility to enlighten their kids about Santa... BUT we don't live in an ideal world. In fact we live in a world where the parents are the ones who have taught the little crumb-crunchers about Santa in the first place! Are we now going to depend on them to fess up to the big lie that they started?

I say let the little sadists <grin> spoil the fun by speaking the truth, at least, whether out of envy or strife the truth is going forth! Phl 1:15-18

Even as I'm thinking about this I'm thinking that really it should be the adults who should be proclaiming truth and then man-up and deal with the consequences of that stand (i.e. irate parents who have been lying for years!)

At least the kids would know that their Sunday School teachers are sticking to the truth and it might help them to also believe the other things that are being taught. Dittos for when the tooth fairy and easter bunny are brought up!

I know... tis the season and all of that, but I'm going Scrooge this year! <grin>

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814975 is a reply to message #814974 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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heheh...I love your approach, William. Smile


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814977 is a reply to message #814939 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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Thanks William,

But, I have to respect and follow my pastors lead on this one. It really is up to the parents, these children are theirs, not ours to raise. Its never the kids who believe in Santa that are the problem, its the ones who don't, and often their telling their friends the truth is not entirely to enlighten them, but to tease or sound smarter.

I personally wish Christian parents would stand up and teach their kids truth from the start, but I am not their Holy Spirit. Every parent will eventually have to deal with the consequences of their decision in this area. Some kids are cool with it, others are devastated and you really don't know which will be the case.

We chose not to lie to our kids, ever. That was our choice.

Kim


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814994 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
praise2christ  is currently offline praise2christ
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I am treading into this gently, knowing that I have already had my feelings hurt by reading the responses. We do Santa at our house. The Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, too. We even have an Elf on the Shelf! Shocked

I have never seen a problem with make-believe. Both my DH and I grew up with these traditions and never felt lied to by our parents after finding out. Instead, we appreciated the wonder and excitement that it created in our households.

We have had other kids do exactly as you are describing. We even had one teacher in our children's church program make a point to decide that it was not our job to make this decision for our family and tell our kids Santa wasn't real. I really wish more people would instruct their kids that it isn't their job to share this with other kids. It is up to the parents!

If this was a salvation issue, I would absolutely agree that it should be proclaimed loudly within and without the church. But, it isn't.

There are plenty of parenting decision people make that I disagree with. But, I realize they are the parents and should have the final say. So, I don't go around criticizing them or undermining them to their kids. Most people would never dream to do this with other parenting decisions. I'm not sure why the Santa issue is any different.


Stacy, mom to 12-year-old boy/girl twins and a three-year-old boy.

"Every man's life is a fairy tale written by God's finger." Hans Christian Andersen
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814996 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karen in TN  is currently offline Karen in TN
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I agree Stacy. In my family, we have never done santa, but both my sisters have. We always reminded our kids not to talk about it with their cousins right before we would go in for our Christmas at my moms. I think it's a total parental decision. I must admit, that it is much easier now that sisters youngest is 13.

I personally was devastated when I found out santa was not real. It wasn't that my parents had lied to me. It was that the magic wonderment was gone. That's why we began never doing santa. It was no big religious reason. Very Happy

I wonder now though as I see the ads and whatnot talking about creating the magical wonder of Christmas for your kids, etc. why we feel the need to create that for our kids. I just wish all that wonder and awe was because of baby Jesus. I'm one of those that can't seem to compartmentalize Christmas into secular and God and just enjoy it all.

So I am a no santa parent, but I am also one that teaches my kids to just be respectful of other families decisions.


wife of 31 years to Richard, Mom to Matthew (26), Adra 24, Shelby 15, Samuel 13, and Ruby Grace 11. Homeschooling for 19 years.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814998 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
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I'm with you all the way, Stacy!


Lisa T.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #814999 is a reply to message #814998 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hyzenthlay
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I don't have time to write a full reply, so I'll just say I see more of my experience from childhood in Tracy's post ( although I had a detour on the way) , except I draw the line at Elf on a Shelf. Laughing
My younger children were well past this age when we began celebrating. I take my cues from my children in how they do things ,when I approach the grands.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815000 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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I have found the issue never comes from the kids who believe in Santa, its the ones who don't and feel the need to let everyone know. That is why we are hoping to encourage the parents of kids who already know to help their kids be respectful of those who don't.

I hope my responses have not cause hurt feelings, that certainly was not my intent and the reason for putting this in the Hot Topics section of the site. I have never felt it my place to undermine parents in what they decide to do in their homes regarding these types of decisions, which is why I am trying to handle it properly. It can be tricky, especially in leadership, when dealing with kids and parents when celebrations vary so vastly. NO matter what you say or do someone is bound to get their feelings hurt, even when you are expressing your own personal opinion and reasons for your decision.

On a personal note, I asked my kids a while back if they felt like they had missed out by us not doing Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy. Other than the cash from the tooth fairy Wink they did not feel their holiday experiences were any less fun or exciting or magical. We did stockings, watched the old Christmas claymation and cartoons, sang the songs and had a jolly time. At the same time, we were respectful of those extended family members and friends who did use the traditions. We tried to make sure our kids understood that families are different and celebrate different ways, it was not their place to say otherwise. I do not have a problem with make believe, but when it is presented as truth, then I have to stop and think.

I grew up with Santa, and while I don't think I suffered any great harm, i do remember feeling very embarrassed that I had fallen for it for so long.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 December 2015 14:21]


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815003 is a reply to message #814994 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Quote:

I am treading into this gently, knowing that I have already had my feelings hurt by reading the responses.


Well, if we are going to get into feelings let me describe mine.

I was in the third grade--THIRD GRADE! when I found out about the big lie. I was on the bus and the kids were mocking me unmercifully about my belief in Santa. I stood strong because I couldn't believe my parents would lie to me.

Then I found out the truth. I don't believe I ever trusted my parents after that.

Hopefully there are some parents that can let their kids down easier than it happened to me but my experience accentuated my distrust of people who perpetuate untruths.

I probably need some therapy or couch time over this (why else would a grown man jump into a Santa/Sunday School thread?) but feelings aside let me say that 1Jo 2:21 highlights the problem on a level we all should be able to understand. Unfortunately for me the previous verse 1Jo 2:20 didn't apply to my life at the time, nor was it applicable to my parents, so to that extent I give them a pass.

Secondly, its been said that it isn't a salvation issue. Well, that may be true but it is a Church issue. Christmas would not be Christmas without the Church. Easter would not be Easter without the Church (sorry, I have no idea about where the tooth fairy came from... all I know is that those quarters quit showing up under my pillow one day-- even though I still had some baby teeth left!).

Now even if you celebrate Christmas and Easter (I don't--SURPRISE!<grin>) how come Santa and the Easter Bunny get the top billing? Now don't go all spiritual on me by saying that baby Jesus is the star attraction because I was nine once and if anyone had asked me who I had rather see on the 25th--Jesus or Santa? --Santa would have won hands down!

Okay, okay... I'm not telling anyone how they should raise their kids (praise2christ I only responded to your note because I needed a place to jump in) nor do I want to dictate/control anyone's conscience --God knows we have enough of that going on in the Church-- my only purpose is to get people to think through some of the decisions they take and make the wisest decisions possible based upon their understanding of our Great God.

Every Christian should decide for themselves how they choose to live their own lives and how they go about raising their kids and I'm not going to care (or condemn) one way or the other beyond giving my opinion. This is a hot topic for a reason, if we all did it the same way we could all just keep our opinions to ourselves and shut up (or say Amen).


Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815004 is a reply to message #815003 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karen in TN  is currently offline Karen in TN
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william wrote on Thu, 10 December 2015 15:08

Quote:

I am treading into this gently, knowing that I have already had my feelings hurt by reading the responses.


Well, that may be true but it is a Church issue. Christmas would not be Christmas without the Church. Easter would not be Easter without the Church

Now even if you celebrate Christmas and Easter (I don't--SURPRISE!<grin>) how come Santa and the Easter Bunny get the top billing? Now don't go all spiritual on me by saying that baby Jesus is the star attraction because I was nine once and if anyone had asked me who I had rather see on the 25th--Jesus or Santa? --Santa would have won hands down!






While I did agree that it is up to the parents, this is where my family is personally when it comes to santa and bunny eggs coming into the church. They absolutely should not be there in my opinion. My child should not walk out of Sunday school with a santa craft. I also don't believe they should have egg hunts or Halloween. If parents choose to do that at home then that is their decision in how they are choosing to raise their kids.


wife of 31 years to Richard, Mom to Matthew (26), Adra 24, Shelby 15, Samuel 13, and Ruby Grace 11. Homeschooling for 19 years.
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815007 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
janetR  is currently offline janetR
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We spent our first seven years parenting being very explicit and making sure our kids knew that Santa was not real. When daughter #3 was 3yo, I knew that I knew that she knew that Santa was not real. But when next Christmas rolled around, she again believed that he was real. That's when I realized that the line between fantasy and reality was too blurry to really figure out the difference.

From that day on, instead of emphasizing the non-reality of Santa, we emphasized how much fun it is to pretend that there is a Santa. That way, before the line between fantasy and reality became clear to them, there was "belief." In the in-between years, they could choose how much they wanted to live in the fantasy or live in the reality. As they matured, they naturally knew the truth because they had come to understand the word "pretend." They openly understood somewhere between ages 7 and 10, depending on how much they wanted to hang onto the fantasy.

Looking back, I'm really glad we did not continue to energetically refute their childish and imaginative beliefs, and equally glad that we never broke trust with them. I was 12 before my parents admitted to me that Santa was not real, which is just ridiculous.


JanetR
daughter of the King since 1980
wife to dh since 1981
mom to five of the most incredible adults on the planet, one wonderful 18yo, and grandma to two bouncy grandsons
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815009 is a reply to message #814994 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4175
Registered: April 2005
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praise2christ wrote on Thu, 10 December 2015 11:35

I am treading into this gently, knowing that I have already had my feelings hurt by reading the responses. We do Santa at our house. The Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, too. We even have an Elf on the Shelf! Shocked

I have never seen a problem with make-believe. Both my DH and I grew up with these traditions and never felt lied to by our parents after finding out. Instead, we appreciated the wonder and excitement that it created in our households.

We have had other kids do exactly as you are describing. We even had one teacher in our children's church program make a point to decide that it was not our job to make this decision for our family and tell our kids Santa wasn't real. I really wish more people would instruct their kids that it isn't their job to share this with other kids. It is up to the parents!

If this was a salvation issue, I would absolutely agree that it should be proclaimed loudly within and without the church. But, it isn't.

There are plenty of parenting decision people make that I disagree with. But, I realize they are the parents and should have the final say. So, I don't go around criticizing them or undermining them to their kids. Most people would never dream to do this with other parenting decisions. I'm not sure why the Santa issue is any different.

THUMBS UP


Peace
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815010 is a reply to message #814971 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4175
Registered: April 2005
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K in nc wrote on Wed, 09 December 2015 16:55

WE are going with the re-direct approach, as well as sending a letting to our parents asking their help in the situation.

Basically asking parents whose kids have figured it out or who don't participate in the Santa tradition to gently remind their children it is the other child's mommy and daddy's' job to talk to them about Santa, etc. Our official position as leaders is to leave that responsibility to the parents.

The issue is usually the kids who don't believe feeling they need to tell all the other kids.


I honestly think that this is the only real thing you can offer as far as what is in your/the setting ability to offer. You can't control what others do, so a reminder/request is best.


Peace
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815011 is a reply to message #814939 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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the thing that sealed the deal for our family personally was a conversation with my fist born when he was about 3 or 4. We were driving in the car around Christmas time and he was in his car seat.

He said "mommy, Santa is not real.", I replied that he was correct, Santa was pretend.
He then said "The Easter Bunny is not real.", I replied that's right, he's pretend.
He then said, "the tooth fairy is not real." I replied, yes that's correct. They are all pretend, and can be fun games, but they are not real.
He then proceeded to say "Mommy, Jesus isn't real." ...I calmly (on the outside) said, Oh no, honey, Jesus is very real, he is God's son, the bible says he is real and he is. He lives in us when we accept him as savior."
To which my son replied, "oh, ok, Jesus is real."

That conversation confirmed, to me, for my kids, for our family, that I had made the right decision in telling my kids the truth from the start.

I'm probably not going to reply to this thread any more. I've gotten the info I needed in regards to my first question, and would never take it upon myself, nor allow my teachers to take it upon themselves to "correct" any child's holiday beliefs. I have also stated my reasons for our family doing what we have done.

Thank you for a good discussion.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 December 2015 17:48]


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815014 is a reply to message #815011 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
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K in nc wrote on Thu, 10 December 2015 17:47

the thing that sealed the deal for our family personally was a conversation with my fist born when he was about 3 or 4. We were driving in the car around Christmas time and he was in his car seat.

He said "mommy, Santa is not real.", I replied that he was correct, Santa was pretend.
He then said "The Easter Bunny is not real.", I replied that's right, he's pretend.
He then said, "the tooth fairy is not real." I replied, yes that's correct. They are all pretend, and can be fun games, but they are not real.
He then proceeded to say "Mommy, Jesus isn't real." ...I calmly (on the outside) said, Oh no, honey, Jesus is very real, he is God's son, the bible says he is real and he is. He lives in us when we accept him as savior."
To which my son replied, "oh, ok, Jesus is real."

That conversation confirmed, to me, for my kids, for our family, that I had made the right decision in telling my kids the truth from the start.

I'm probably not going to reply to this thread any more. I've gotten the info I needed in regards to my first question, and would never take it upon myself, nor allow my teachers to take it upon themselves to "correct" any child's holiday beliefs. I have also stated my reasons for our family doing what we have done.

Thank you for a good discussion.


I think, within a family, that this is the correct way of handling. I think for some, part of the "game" or "magic" or maybe even wanting to just hold on for as long as possible the time when their kids can be so little, that parents will try to help convince their kids even while the kids are awakening to the idea. If a child enters into a conversation such as you've described, I think it best (and ultimately easiest) for pro-Santa parents to handle it just as you have.


Peace
Re: Santa and Sunday School ... [message #815123 is a reply to message #814939 ] Fri, 18 December 2015 05:00 Go to previous message
Jen E.  is currently offline Jen E.
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Like Janet, we taught our dc that there was a real part of Christmas (celebrating the REAL Jesus' birth, even though He probably was not born on Dec. 25), and a pretend part (Santa). We had fun with the pretend part -- hanging stockings, leaving a snack for Santa -- but taught that the real part was the real part.

In response to your OP, Kim, I would respond as Lisa suggested.
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Women In Ministry??? ... This is a compilation of several threaded discussions on the Bible Issues section. The first poster asks, "So I have to ask,after reading all the posts on submission and cultural interpretations how do you all feel, react or handle women in ministry? Do you think they are out of the Lords will? Just curious for other thoughts."

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