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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Syrian Refugees...
Syrian Refugees... [message #814736] Fri, 20 November 2015 21:16 Go to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Go!

(Meaning, what are your thoughts? I haven't studied this, and currently am of two minds about it. I'd love to hear opinions).


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814737 is a reply to message #814736 ] Fri, 20 November 2015 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
Messages: 5496
Registered: April 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Senior Member
We should accept Syrian refugees. It is the Christian thing to do and also the American thing to do. The screening process for refugees is lengthy and extensive, and I believe is sufficient to protect us from terrorists coming in from this population. This is different from Syrian refugees coming into Europe, where they are crossing borders more readily.

We should, however, increase requirements for travelers coming in from Europe. They only need a passport. It would not be difficult for a terrorist to come to our country bearing a European passport--there are currently no visas or other special types of screening required. I believe that this is where the danger is, rather than the refugee population.


Lisa T.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814746 is a reply to message #814737 ] Sat, 21 November 2015 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lori in Michigan
Messages: 175
Registered: August 2005
Senior Member
Lisa T. wrote on Fri, 20 November 2015 21:12

We should accept Syrian refugees. It is the Christian thing to do and also the American thing to do. The screening process for refugees is lengthy and extensive, and I believe is sufficient to protect us from terrorists coming in from this population. This is different from Syrian refugees coming into Europe, where they are crossing borders more readily.

We should, however, increase requirements for travelers coming in from Europe. They only need a passport. It would not be difficult for a terrorist to come to our country bearing a European passport--there are currently no visas or other special types of screening required. I believe that this is where the danger is, rather than the refugee population.


I agree!
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814754 is a reply to message #814736 ] Sat, 21 November 2015 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
Messages: 4572
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tennessee
Senior Member
I think the Church should lay out a framework whereby its members can help refugees adapt and assimilate into American society. I think non-muslim friendships are good accountability on both sides. We do what we are supposed to do and they know we're watching.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814760 is a reply to message #814736 ] Sun, 22 November 2015 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

This is poignant & convicting. This is where my heart is:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1171063369589223& ;set=a.608058722556360.1073741825.100000567146996&type=3 &fref=nf

This is where my head, sort of, is:
https://www.facebook.com/rocelia.patterson/posts/10206693435 687870?fref=nf&pnref=story

I guess the answer lies somewhere in being as wise as serpents and innocent as doves, in showing compassion to others and doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814761 is a reply to message #814736 ] Mon, 23 November 2015 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
Messages: 3157
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member

I am conflicted.


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814773 is a reply to message #814736 ] Mon, 23 November 2015 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rosemary-MI  is currently offline Rosemary-MI
Messages: 1313
Registered: April 2005
Location: Lower mid Michigan
Senior Member
I fear it is history repeating itself.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-a way-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-1 80957324/?no-ist

These people will be screened. I talked to a man last week that was a child of 12 in 1940 in Germany. He said he understands what these people want-safety and freedom from fear. They are afraid and risking their lives to get out of the country.

Psalm 27:1 says it all.

~Rosemary


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814776 is a reply to message #814736 ] Mon, 23 November 2015 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

I'm sure there are issues I'm not considering, and I am considering the memes on FB about taking care of our veterans and homeless before adding more to the list of needy in our society.

But the more I think about it, the more I consider the idea of doing unto others as I'd have them do unto me. And my own personal philosophy has always been that I'd rather let a guilty man go free than to condemn an innocent man.

In thinking about the potential disaster involved in letting a terrorist cell set up in our country as they falsely pose as refugees, I am reminded that God is ultimately in control, and my safety as well as our national safety is dependent on God and not on government immigration policy.

Therefore, at this time, I'm leaning much more toward compassion than a hard line self-protection policy.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814777 is a reply to message #814736 ] Mon, 23 November 2015 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimples  is currently offline Dimples
Messages: 1406
Registered: August 2005
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I believe with extensive screening, those needing a place to feel safe and protected should be allowed in.

HOWEVER, not just "let in" and have the mindset of, 'here you go, now go find a place to live and work.' We really aren't helping them if all we do is allow them in the nation. There is still a need of shelter, food, and need of finances. This just adds to their frustration. If we aren't able to provide something, they will find other means to get help - means that might be illegal and/or other ways.

Tough situation. There really isn't a set answer. It takes God's guidance in this.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814784 is a reply to message #814736 ] Tue, 24 November 2015 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diana P.  is currently offline Diana P.
Messages: 4039
Registered: April 2005
Location: New England
Senior Member
Responses are all over the place, which shows how conflicted many of us are.

One thought I had in the middle of all of this is that Christ never said we were going to live a comfortable life, nor has He called us to be complacent and comfortable. We are called to be His ambassadors on this earth, His hands and feet of compassion.

Love is risky for sure. On the one hand, I have concerns about security here (who doesn't?). On the other hand, the love of Christ and His compassion in me say, why are we rejecting those whom the Father loves and wants to touch? Are we going to live in fear all of our days? For all I know, my neighhbor who's lived across the street from us for years could be conspiring with terrorists, or actually be one. (I don't think they are, but I'm just using as an example to show that we really don't know WHO, among us, is safe and who's not until they show their true intentions with their actions).

Anyway, all that to say that I am still conflicted, and I surely don't have the answer, except to pray.


Grace & Peace,
Diana

"Do your best, then rest"

Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #814834 is a reply to message #814776 ] Sun, 29 November 2015 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elliemaejune  is currently offline elliemaejune
Messages: 1219
Registered: April 2005
Location: Texas
Senior Member
Lisa R. wrote on Mon, 23 November 2015 13:56

I'm sure there are issues I'm not considering, and I am considering the memes on FB about taking care of our veterans and homeless before adding more to the list of needy in our society.

But the more I think about it, the more I consider the idea of doing unto others as I'd have them do unto me. And my own personal philosophy has always been that I'd rather let a guilty man go free than to condemn an innocent man.

In thinking about the potential disaster involved in letting a terrorist cell set up in our country as they falsely pose as refugees, I am reminded that God is ultimately in control, and my safety as well as our national safety is dependent on God and not on government immigration policy.

Therefore, at this time, I'm leaning much more toward compassion than a hard line self-protection policy.


So, if we accept 10,000 refugees, does that mean that 10,000 people who have been working to enter the U.S. legally will be moved to the end of the line?

And yes, how can we welcome 10,000 people with no jobs and no source of income into the U.S. while we have so many citizens--children, veterans--who are homeless?

The U.S., both as a nation and as individuals, donates millions of dollars to help those in need in other countries. I don't think that refusing to allow 10,000 vagrants to enter negates our charity.


Born again since 1974
Married to Mr. Ellie for over 30 years
Mom to 2 amazing grown-up dds and 2 dsil
Grandmother to 1 beautiful baby boy

A kitten dies every time you use an apostrophe to pluralize.
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #815606 is a reply to message #814736 ] Fri, 22 January 2016 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
yea. boy oh boy. Such an illustration of much that I am thinking about.

( Lisa, that first image tugs at my heart as well. We also have so many of these images in our own nation, and moresoe I see the pleading in the eyes of precious,healthy children born into addiction and into homes of truely ignorant and dependant parents, chidren that become the adults and continue the situation)

What does wise as serpents and gentle as doves actually mean?

My take is that Christians err on the gentle side and are not wise.

We do live in this world. When trouble is right on our doorstep,we arent so charitable. (aka...an intruder in your home...are you going to invite him to move in or are you going to defend yourself and call the authorities?)

My concern is that too many Christians are armchair players. Sure, maybe sitting at home and praying; and sharing opinions, but unless we are out there, how do we know what to pray? Are we being His hands and feet?

How many of us are really out there, in the soup kitchens, at the salvation army or your local urban mission? How many actually daily SEE how much free medical care is already given out and how that affects the care of many.

How many of your churches are already short staffed, underfunded and inundated not with calls to share the Gospel, but with calls for gas cards,food cards and calls to pay every kind of heating,water or medical bill for non church members ( not to mention church memebers)( Dont get me wrong,these monies are for our less fortunate, but TOO many today are in that position and it seems to me that, as much as I hate to say it, bringing more in is going to cause such chaos in these systems)

RE: medical care, again,we call it from our armchairs and say that we would gladly give up our seat to the less fortunate: until it is us or our loved one who is suddenly in the ambulance needing life giving care. In this situation, are we satisfied with an overwhelmed system? I will answer that no we are not. Christians can be some of the bossiest,pushiest, and non compliant clients in medicine and in many areas of commerce, especially Christians who are not daily involved in the marketplace, because they dont get what actually goes on.

I suspect this is the same in the public school scene at every level of education. OVERWHELMED. And charitable.

Why do we,as Christians, so easily discount our current acts of charity?

Why do we, from a distance,welcome potential threats when they are afar off, yet quake with fear when they are upon us?

Is this being as wise as a serpent and as gently as a dove?

I think we can wisely speak truth and be gentle. It is when we start begging and whining and vacillating that we begin trodding on folly, and is also where we lose track of gentleness.

Just some meandering thoughts that are very difficult to put succinctly into words.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 January 2016 09:20]


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #815607 is a reply to message #814736 ] Fri, 22 January 2016 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
Oh. And treading cautiously back in to mention, suggest or ask,not quite sure which:

When looking at Presidential Candidates, I wonder if the Christians who want to assure that the Constitution is upheld can be supporters of taking in refugees.

Does that infringe upon the rights of Americans and thus on upholding the Constitution?


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #815617 is a reply to message #814773 ] Fri, 22 January 2016 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
I'll have to say that while I'm conflicted, I'm also muddled (my brain is like soup today - flu of some sort, dehydration). I do not see this as a true case of apples-to-apples when bringing up the 1930's Jews. I'll admit, that is partially where I went in the beginning - to have empathy for those displaced in war - holding back only because I didn't hear this demand to offer safe harbor for Christian and Yazidi families. They weren't even safe in the UNHCR refugee camps! Admittedly, there has been a lot going on in my life so if there was this concentrated effort, I missed it. We're a major port here, and I've not seen / heard any. Maybe that doesn't belong in this conversation - but it is one that makes me curious about our country two years ago when the fever was all about minding our own business. But one thing is clear, there weren't other Jewish countries to go to in 1930s, and without Shanghai, I'm not clear who else was an open city to the refugees. That isn't the case with the Muslim refugees who are...well, wait, let me ask...we celebrated the Arab Spring...are these Muslims (not the Christian, Yazidi and Kurd minorities) targeted for religious persecution or are they targeted for being on the losing side? So, there's that in my mind. There's not, to my understanding, a lot of Arab or Muslim countries offering to permanently settle refugees. Am I correct in that? Really, I hear that is the case, and I wonder. I also hear that those going into Europe, are already leaving those camps? I think the recent uptick in Holocaust imagery is a political one, and not necessarily with the Syrians best interests. These same sources vilify Israel today when she defends herself. So, my question would be - because I don't think that we can separate people in this atmosphere from economic migrants from true refugees (sorry, I don't) would are we then going to have internment camps? Are the fleeing Syrians choosing where to go or are we following UN convention to have them go to the nearest safe country outside their own?


Editing to ask, sincerely, I would think our country would have longer term blessings on Muslims by figuring out who the moderates are and giving them voice...if not propping them up with our clout? Beyond that broad umbrella of a thought I'm out of ideas...but when comparing apples to apples of the 1930s, wouldn't they be more in line with the majority of the non-Nazi Germans during the Nazi era?

[Updated on: Fri, 22 January 2016 18:24]


Peace
Re: Syrian Refugees... [message #815620 is a reply to message #815617 ] Fri, 22 January 2016 23:57 Go to previous message
carolinec
Messages: 625
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Jamie wrote on Fri, 22 January 2016 17:15

That isn't the case with the Muslim refugees who are...well, wait, let me ask...we celebrated the Arab Spring...are these Muslims (not the Christian, Yazidi and Kurd minorities) targeted for religious persecution or are they targeted for being on the losing side?



Actually, there is very seriously bad blood between different sects of Islam. ISIS is salafi, so they are Sunni Muslims. They consider Shia Muslims (and the Ahmamadia, and the Druze [debate over what actual religion the Druze belong to but anyway) and so on to be apostates.

the sentence for apostasy in Deash controlled territory is death. And you're an apostate when you're the wrong sect; you're an apostate if you don't accept their particular brand of Islam.

That's not the sentence for being Christian, or Jewish. Yes, there's a whole lotta other stuff going on there, and yes, lots of Christians do get killed. But for a whole load of Muslims, yes- being in SIS territory is going to get you killed. Not a perfect analogy to WWII by any means, but it's certainly genocide under the commonly accepted meaning of the term (the intention to systematically exterminating members of a particular [in this case religious] group).
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