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Home » CHFWeb Libraries » Titus Two Library » I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!!
I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239741] Wed, 14 March 2007 09:04 Go to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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We've got several threads about discipline going on right now, and I find my heart bothered by them, partly worried that I've spoken too much and will lead someone astray, but there's just been a nagging, unsettled feeling about them that I can't put my finger on. I finally figured it out this morning!

Here's the deal. People are asking about specific incidents or patterns in their children that indicate a discipline "issue," typically an attitude or character trait of rebellion. Then most of us are addressing that, and we're getting into philosophies and ideas of correction needed to fix that trait or keep that incident or pattern from recurring.

The problem is--That's only one small part of having a godly relationship with your child and a godly family!

In considering my posts, it probably sounds like I walk around with the paddle smacking my kids 50 times a day. In fact, when they were young, I sort of felt that way sometimes. Rolling Eyes But, when someone asks a question, I share various incidents in our lives that have occurred over the last 20 years--not just last week!

So, I thought I'd share how a typical day goes. This morning the phone woke us up (Sad) and my 4-yo came and snuggled with me for a few minutes. 13yo came talked with us for a bit. I got up to take my shower, and dh returned the phone call (we don't wake up quickly!). When I came downstairs, my 13yo had my coffee ready (she and my 9 yo enjoy doing that for me. I don't ask them, but I think it's pretty cool! Smile). I greeted the 7 yo with a hug and now she and my 4yo are playing quietly on the computer. Everyone else is still asleep (we have an out of town guest and my teens were up watching a movie and yakking till way late).

In a few minutes, we'll get the others up and get moving for the day. Breakfast will be a free-for-all of cereal, which will involve kids going back and forth in the kitchen and laughing and giggling. I'll probably ask them to be quiet, and they probably will quieten down. We'll eat and then get to our morning chores and school.

During chores, someone is likely to speak sharply to someone else (you thought this was going to be one of those homeschool magazine "ideal day" things, didn't you?! Laughing ), or someone will say in that obnoxious, whiny voice, "She's not helping. I'm the only one doing anything around here."

Now from my recent posts, you'd probably think there'd be a big ol' honking discipline issue with spankings and reminders of first time obedience and so forth. NOT!

I'll likely say, "Hey. quit bickering and everyone get back to work," and they most likely will.

Not every incident IS a rebellious attitude requiring an all-out correction. Sometimes it's just the day to day "friction" of 10-11 people living in a small space and all that's needed is a simple reminder. You don't use a shotgun to get rid of a mosquito.

We do have times during the day when I have to say something to my kids, but after training them well before the age of say, 5, then after that, it's usually just a quick reminder for most things, and then life goes on pleasantly as a rule.

My household is CHARACTERIZED by pleasantness, and we TYPICALLY have exhibit close relationships as the day goes on. The things I'm mentioning in the posts on discipline questions are for pretty rare things (less rare for my 7 yo, but improving). The suggestions I've made are for moving a child/family from a family that is characterized by a mom exhausting from "battling" a child all day over school and chores and attitudes, to a family that is characterized by their love for one another and the obedience of the children. The things I suggest are for handling a crisis or negative pattern, and turning the "family ship" around to the right heading---NOT for every day, all the time family relationships!

I just finally realized that is what was bugging me. It would be too easy to read my posts and think that's what life is like all the time at our house, when really it's not. The posts reflect what life is like at times when we've let things slide and need to whip things back into shape, but it's really a small percentage of what we're all about here.

I just felt that I needed to clarify that, as I was feeling negative and couldn't figure out why. It was the one-sidedness of the presentation dealing with a specific issue that bothered me.

Y'all have a great day and enjoy your kids! Smile


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239745 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
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I didn't follow the whole thread, but I totally understand where you're coming from. The Bible speaks of many different ways in which we deal with our children by teaching, training, entreating, etc (read Proverbs), and then the rod.

If you don't do the work on the front end, don't expect to get compliance with the rod. Parents need to understand the childishness of children and deal with them in love and firm gentleness.

Sure, we spanked, and proabably not enough. But I didn't start out teaching on the front end, either. Fortunately we came to see that parenting is more than barking orders and spanking.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239754 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MicheleB  is currently offline MicheleB
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This was a helpful post as well, Lisa.

FWIW, I didn't think you went around swatting your kids every time they crossed their eyes wrong. Very Happy

But I am glad you shared this. It encouraged me for MY day. Smile


Michele
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239789 is a reply to message #239754 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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My dh has taught me a lot about love and grace.

He tends to work on the positive side of the relationship with the kids so much...that when something comes up (especially with the teens)...it sometimes looked to me like he was overlooking it, when actually he was letting a little time go by, killing them with kindness, looking for the right time to speak to them, etc.

I have seen in several situations that his grace-filled way of leading them by service has worked to the betterment of our children. He's firm when he needs to be, but they KNOW he loves them and wants the best for them.

I have also seen families that harp on the equivalent of FTO with older kids, and with not quite enough grace and mercy...deal with the same situations that our family has dealt with in the past few years...and the result sometimes be misunderstandings...jumping to conclusions by the kids about the parents' motives...anger by kids...rejection of parents' values/Christian ethics...

But I have also seen that happen with families that didn't require the equivalent of FTO with their kids. I'm not saying that anyone can do it perfectly. Just that it seems like a balancing act...working on the strings of relationships, while still working on heart-discipleship.

Very intriguing post, Lisa...

Sherry, always lurching from one side to the other, but with dh to point her back to the middle Wink


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239861 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jules
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I don't think it's coincidental that I was praying about this in our family this morning, for conviction, and this is the first thing I see. I'll be spending some extra special time with my little girl today, we have some work to do(in a good way!). Smile Thank you Lisa.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239863 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Thanks Lisa. I completely understand what you mean (we live our lives and train our children in pretty much the same way as you and hold the VERY STRONG position that obedience is to be an immediate thing).

Another thing I was thinking of last night as I was drifting off to sleep was that when we are in "training mode" with our children, this is the time when our focus is on having their obedience become second nature. Because we start child training with our children from the time they are 7 months old (and remember, discipline is only ONE part of training...and it is not the part we begin at 7 months old, but training DOES begin for us then) they have learned a great deal about obedience by the time they are 12 months old. Our training is filled with joyous excitement over a task well done, lots of praise and tender speech. We are not harsh or cruel with our children. But we also know they will only live up to what we expect of them - no more (until they come to have their own convictions from the Lord and respond to those) so we hold the bar high - because we know God holds it high for His children!

I also think there is a misunderstanding if we equate first time obedience with a lack of grace or with being harsh. Think about God. Moses, who was able to speak face to face with God, was given much and so much was required of him. When he did nothing worse than hitting a rock, he was refused entry into the promised land. To our human (and feeble) minds, this sounds harsh and like a lack of grace. But it was out of love and compassion that God held Moses to that standard. While the rest of the people (who had committed horrendous sins and rebellion) marched happily away into the promised land, Moses STILL enjoyed a deeper and more intimate walk with the Lord than they ever would. I believe he knew that it was best FOR THEM that he stay on this side. He knew that God's discipline would be taken more seriously because of his staying on the other side. In other words, God WAS displaying compassion and grace in His discipline of Moses...He was displaying it to the people. Moses was already understanding this and was ready to be with the Lord in death.

When we allow our children to disobey even the first time, we are TRAINING them to be rebellious. I knew some children who said, "We don't have to obey our mother until she tells us things 5 times." She, by her not requiring first time obedience, was NOT exhibiting love for her children...she was training them to rebel (which they all did, by the way) and she was setting them up for failure in their lives (they all did poorly in school, most ended up in trouble with the law and none were ever able to hold down jobs).

Just wanted to add more information to the frey.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239903 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charity  is currently offline Charity
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Lisa - I decided to stop reading the discipline threads about a month or so ago because they bother me sooooo much. I just go away feeling sick to my stomach. There always seems to be so little grace and no context of relationship. I know that it's because the post is issue-directed and cannot present the entire context. But it still grieves me as it just seems people are "after" their kids, KWIM? And then it bothers me that there seems to be no repentance or acceptance of responsibility on the parent's part. Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often. Then they want to come in and "tough love" the kid and come down really hard all over their child. But the parent receives no discipline, no rebuke, no correction for their failures. It's suddenly all the kid's fault and he/she is the only one that needs to be addressed. I think much discipline needs to start with the PARENTS repenting, grieving, mourning, confessing, accepting responsibility for creating the situation and rebuilding relationship rather than just coming in with a stick and start swinging (figuratively). I havent' read the latest posts because I don't read them anymore so I'm not specifically addressing anybody. It took me awhile to figure out why the discipline posts bugged me, but that's what I finally came to realize. I'm glad to hear you say something and I totally agree with you. Little discipline is necessary in a home where there is relationship. People are too invested in each other to hurt one another or to put the relationship at risk.

Charity
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239937 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tamara Eaton
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Well said, Lisa (and Kate and I'm still reading through all the rest! Wink )!

I haven't read the discipline threads lately, but I understand where you're coming from and agree. I pray that we all will demonstrate to our children God's love unconditionally and train and nurture them in that love with His wisdom. Oh how thankful I am that we don't have to go this alone --He promises to be there for us at all times!

[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2007 13:21]


Blessings,
Tamara

"There is always enough time to do the will of God. Don't Waste Your Life!"
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #239975 is a reply to message #239903 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 11:41

Lisa - I decided to stop reading the discipline threads about a month or so ago because they bother me sooooo much. I just go away feeling sick to my stomach. There always seems to be so little grace and no context of relationship. I know that it's because the post is issue-directed and cannot present the entire context. But it still grieves me as it just seems people are "after" their kids, KWIM? And then it bothers me that there seems to be no repentance or acceptance of responsibility on the parent's part. Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often. Then they want to come in and "tough love" the kid and come down really hard all over their child. But the parent receives no discipline, no rebuke, no correction for their failures. It's suddenly all the kid's fault and he/she is the only one that needs to be addressed. I think much discipline needs to start with the PARENTS repenting, grieving, mourning, confessing, accepting responsibility for creating the situation and rebuilding relationship rather than just coming in with a stick and start swinging (figuratively). I havent' read the latest posts because I don't read them anymore so I'm not specifically addressing anybody. It took me awhile to figure out why the discipline posts bugged me, but that's what I finally came to realize. I'm glad to hear you say something and I totally agree with you. Little discipline is necessary in a home where there is relationship. People are too invested in each other to hurt one another or to put the relationship at risk.

Charity


Yeah...when things slip around here and I see that we need to "crack down," we always start by asking our kids forgiveness--WE are the reason things are going to be tough for the next little bit, because WE fell down on our end of the deal. When we see attitudes and behavior in our children that we know grieves the Lord, we realize that it's because we've allowed it, or worse, modeled it. Embarassed I can't tell you how many times I "lay down the law" and say, "There is going to be no more ______" and Daddy and I need your help in making sure we're sticking by it as well."

As parents, we can't push our kids ahead to have better attitudes and behavior that we ourselves are willing to exhibit. And we must regularly come before the Lord in willingness to be corrected ourselves before we can adequately disciple or discipline our children.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240010 is a reply to message #239903 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 10:41

Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often.

Wow, this is so true! It has been a rare thing that a child over the age of 4 had to be spanked in our home. And I can count one 1 hand the times we've had to discipline (in any form) a child over the age of 12 (and we have 5 at that age or beyond)!

It is all about building respect, honor and strong relationships - and that means giving respect and honor as much as it does expecting it to be given. When your relationships are strong with the Lord and with one another then love becomes the goal of ALL our instruction! And then you end up with loving healthy relationships where you actually ENJOY being with one another!

In all of this, out desire should not be to have obedient children, our goal should be joyful, loving, compassionate and respectful children (whose character is formed in the heart and mind of Christ). There is a difference. The first one is building aherance to rules, the second is building godly relationships.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240021 is a reply to message #240010 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Kate Megill wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:50

Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 10:41

Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often.

Wow, this is so true! It has been a rare thing that a child over the age of 4 had to be spanked in our home. And I can count one 1 hand the times we've had to discipline (in any form) a child over the age of 12 (and we have 5 at that age or beyond)!

It is all about building respect, honor and strong relationships - and that means giving respect and honor as much as it does expecting it to be given. When your relationships are strong with the Lord and with one another then love becomes the goal of ALL our instruction! And then you end up with loving healthy relationships where you actually ENJOY being with one another!

In all of this, out desire should not be to have obedient children, our goal should be joyful, loving, compassionate and respectful children (whose character is formed in the heart and mind of Christ). There is a difference. The first one is building aherance to rules, the second is building godly relationships.



Yes! That's it! And that's what is so hard to explain in cyberspace when someone asks, "What do I do when....?" I feel so much better now. Smile


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240047 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pamela  is currently offline Pamela
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Parenting is so humbling...most of the problems my children have are our fault because we dropped the ball. Discipline begins when WE (the parents) humble ourselves, right our attitudes and then assist the children with theirs.

Good stuff ladies!

Pamela
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240055 is a reply to message #240047 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Pamela wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:42

Parenting is so humbling...most of the problems my children have are our fault because we dropped the ball. Discipline begins when WE (the parents) humble ourselves, right our attitudes and then assist the children with theirs.

Good stuff ladies!

Pamela

Absolutely! I always tell young moms that I spend MOST of my parenting life confessing to my children and asking their forgiveness for when I've blown it in my life ("Will you forgive me for not spanking you when..." that ALWAYS throws them! Wink).

[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2007 16:13]


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240057 is a reply to message #239741 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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I remember once when Hannah was about 15 months old and we were in a store. She was beginning to stand up in the cart and I said, "Hannah, sit down please." And when she did I said, "Good job, thank you for obeying." A woman RAN from one end of the store to me...I thought she was going to slug me! She thanked me for speaking respectfully to my little girl and said she couldn't remember the last time she saw a mom be polite and respectful to her child and said she just KNEW that my children would turn out polite and respectful because that was the atmosphere we would be promoting in our home.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240133 is a reply to message #240055 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charity  is currently offline Charity
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Kate Megill wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 14:13

Pamela wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:42

Parenting is so humbling...most of the problems my children have are our fault because we dropped the ball. Discipline begins when WE (the parents) humble ourselves, right our attitudes and then assist the children with theirs.

Good stuff ladies!

Pamela

Absolutely! I always tell young moms that I spend MOST of my parenting life confessing to my children and asking their forgiveness for when I've blown it in my life ("Will you forgive me for not spanking you when..." that ALWAYS throws them! Wink).


OR...will you forgive me FOR spanking YOU when this is MY problem, my anger, my impatience, my neglect, my busyiness, my selfishness, my distraction, my disorderly relationships, etc. that has caused this. I found that my children's behavior was more a barometer of MY failings then theirs.

Charity
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240155 is a reply to message #240133 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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Well, Lisa, I've been eating up all of your recent posts, and I in no way misunderstood what you were saying. Don't feel too bad. Smile You are usually very clear in your posts. Thanks for taking the time to teach us.


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240215 is a reply to message #240133 ] Wed, 14 March 2007 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 16:59

Kate Megill wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 14:13

Pamela wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:42

Parenting is so humbling...most of the problems my children have are our fault because we dropped the ball. Discipline begins when WE (the parents) humble ourselves, right our attitudes and then assist the children with theirs.

Good stuff ladies!

Pamela

Absolutely! I always tell young moms that I spend MOST of my parenting life confessing to my children and asking their forgiveness for when I've blown it in my life ("Will you forgive me for not spanking you when..." that ALWAYS throws them! Wink).


OR...will you forgive me FOR spanking YOU when this is MY problem, my anger, my impatience, my neglect, my busyiness, my selfishness, my distraction, my disorderly relationships, etc. that has caused this. I found that my children's behavior was more a barometer of MY failings then theirs.

Charity


Oh I remember when I had to ask their forgiveness for my discontented attitude that was causing discontentment in them. I told them that we would ALL be working on this together but that I was sorry that my sin reflected in their lives. Still, we all got reproved for our behavior and choices (me by God, them by me), but we were in this together!


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240353 is a reply to message #239903 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 02:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 10:41

Lisa - I decided to stop reading the discipline threads about a month or so ago because they bother me sooooo much. I just go away feeling sick to my stomach. There always seems to be so little grace and no context of relationship. I know that it's because the post is issue-directed and cannot present the entire context. But it still grieves me as it just seems people are "after" their kids, KWIM? And then it bothers me that there seems to be no repentance or acceptance of responsibility on the parent's part. Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often. Then they want to come in and "tough love" the kid and come down really hard all over their child. But the parent receives no discipline, no rebuke, no correction for their failures. It's suddenly all the kid's fault and he/she is the only one that needs to be addressed. I think much discipline needs to start with the PARENTS repenting, grieving, mourning, confessing, accepting responsibility for creating the situation and rebuilding relationship rather than just coming in with a stick and start swinging (figuratively). I havent' read the latest posts because I don't read them anymore so I'm not specifically addressing anybody. It took me awhile to figure out why the discipline posts bugged me, but that's what I finally came to realize. I'm glad to hear you say something and I totally agree with you. Little discipline is necessary in a home where there is relationship. People are too invested in each other to hurt one another or to put the relationship at risk.

Charity



Very well put Charity and soooo how I feel about this whole issue. I too don't read much of the discipline stuff. I amaze myself when I look back at the raising of my four kids. I was very hard on child #1 but learned patience, kindness and self-control (hmmmm? What does that sound like?) resulting in a more relaxed time with the subsequent children - still getting the results dh and I desired in behavior. There is so much that can be done if we use our minds and do not lose our cool. Smile


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Lisa..... [message #240354 is a reply to message #239741 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Just to let you know, even though I have not read a lot of the discipline threads I have read some. You don't come across like a tyrant! Especially in light of all your other posts. Your loving personality shines through. Very Happy



TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240357 is a reply to message #239741 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Christine (in MD)
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Wow...I think this is one of most pertinent threads yet. I agree with Charity. So many times I leave the CHFweb site feeling uneasy and thinking "some people are too uptight". Razz

I remember cracking down on my oldest son when he was younger (who is still only 12 now) and saying to my Dh at the end of the day "You know, I'd really hate to live a day in his shoes. All the stuff he hears from you and me day after day. No wonder he's the way he is. How would you feel if you had a boss speak to you the way we speak to him?" It was a humbling and painful realization. I imagined what someone would think if they watched a videotape of ME parenting my kids (like a Dateline thing Rolling Eyes ). I might have been 'correcting' my son but my approach left MUCH to be desired.

I'm glad you said it, Kate....respect. My father was verbally abusive and I honestly didn't understand what he meant when he screamed at us "I get no respect here!" He never showed me what respect LOOKED LIKE! I don't understand why parents don't think that respect is a two way street. Look at our relationships with our spouses and friends. When we are mistreated (by our MIL's, etc, for example), how easily can we show and feel respect for that person? Yet I've heard parents speak to their children in a tone and with words that they wouldn't even use on the family dog! Shocked

To help myself with this issue (our family is REALLY trying to focus on respecting each other....we're not pros, but we focus on it Very Happy ), I remember that although I'm looking at a 7 year old, I'm talking to a future man. I really want to talk to my children the way I would want to be spoken to. Why not? They're people too! Forgiveness, grace, patience, gentleness, respect... these need to accompany the love we have for our children.

My 12 year old, he actually 'turned around' once I stopped with the negative words, criticism, threats of punishment and started talking to him with respect. (I'm not implying that I 'kiss his butt', I simply talk to him with the same respect I would other adults. I'm pretty sure I had been 'provoking' and 'exasperating' him before.) My grandmother gave me the wisest advice I've ever received "Your children will become what you tell them they are." It sounds simplistic, but it makes me think about the words my children hear from me in a day. I remind myself "When was the last time I told him I was proud of him or gave him praise for doing something right?"

"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child"...this isn't only to remind us how much work we have cut out for us as parents, this is to remind us WHO we're dealing with...children, not mature adults. They will eventually "put away childish things" and these days will be gone. How they remember us as parents and what they learn from us is what they will carry into adulthood.

What a tough job, tall order and big shoes to fill. Who said our homes aren't a mission field? Smile

Christine

[Updated on: Thu, 15 March 2007 04:38]

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240376 is a reply to message #239741 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AtHomeMomma  is currently offline AtHomeMomma
Messages: 13
Registered: March 2007
Junior Member
Lisa,

I think you touched on an important aspect in discipline--tying heart strings Smile We can't just be spank-spank-spank, without love-love-love-love-love-love-love! Your post reminds me of how I was feeling the first time I watched the Pearls' DVDs. I know that they tend to come across as 'harsh' in their books (and I'll admit, there are a few things that I don't agree with) but if you watch the movies (the child-training ones) you can SEE things like clips of home videos where he obviously is in a loving relationship with his kids. Or, he continuously shares little tidbits of things that happened with his kids that show that they obviously have/had love in their home! He believes in discipline, yes, but he ALSO believes in having a relationship with your kids, and not just being an authoritarian. I think sometimes people forget this (not just with him, but in their own homes) and swing too far towards discipline, and forget the love part.

Years ago someone said (in reference to the many phases people will go through where they will "crack down" on the kids more): "When you up the Discipline, up the Love."


At Home Momma to my bunch Smile
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240480 is a reply to message #239903 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimples  is currently offline Dimples
Messages: 1406
Registered: August 2005
Senior Member
Charity wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 10:41

Many discipline issues later in childhood are because the parents messed up in the early years - not always, but often.


This is dh and I with our oldest (ds). We saw "our mistakes" when he was about 15 yo and began changing things. There was a lot of rebellion when we did and looking back, I would like to spank myself for not being more consistent with disciplining him at an earlier age (not spanking part, I did that enough out of anger, but the correcting, example, etc.). Somethings we weren't able to "correct" because we had set a wrong example from the beginning, but it did help with the younger two.

I can see a drastic difference in our other two kids in comparison with ds. Our relationship with ds (20 yo) is not bad; it's not the best, but we are making progress. When we (dh & I) realized our neglect, we did sit ds down, and explained to him that we were at fault for not being what God had required of us as parents. We apologized to him and told him we were going to begin doing as God commands us and then we all prayed together. Ds looked at us like we were crazy, but as time wore on, began to understand we meant business and we were not going to back down. (Those were some hard, loud, and stressful times in our home).

Just thought I'd share that when you do not follow God's will in parenting, there will be problems; however, repentance is "golden" and things can be made better, but only through God's guidance and help.
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240616 is a reply to message #239741 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lcourtneymom(Leah)  is currently offline lcourtneymom(Leah)
Messages: 603
Registered: February 2007
Location: SC
Senior Member
Lisa,
I have appreciated what you had to say about discpline very much! You didn't come across as a tyrant to me either. Smile

I believe we can use diferent terminology and some of us may employ different methods but the key is we are deliberately and purposefully seeking to teach our children to love and honor God and to glorify Him in all they do as they get older!


Leah

Wife of Jason (17 years), mom to dd( 12 ), ds(11), dd(8) and dd(6)

I say to myself, "The Lord is my portion; therefore I will wait for Him." Lam.3:24

Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #240684 is a reply to message #239741 ] Thu, 15 March 2007 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nancy  is currently offline Nancy
Messages: 558
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Great post!

We've rarely had to spank around here after the age of 3 or 4. Even then, it was mostly just a slap on the hands.

I'm really not much into TV but I've enjoyed watching Supernanny over the past couple of years. She teaches about making up a daily schedule/routine, a list of house rules, and enforcing VERY consistent time-outs instead of other alternatives.

She always gets results and I've seen a totally chaotic house become a very calm house with her techniques.

Does it take work? YES! -- most definitely but that is what parenting is all about.

Of course, with a Christian family, the daily routine should include plenty of spiritual time with prayer and time reading the Word with our little ones.


Blessings,
~N
Re: I figured out what's bothering me about the discipline threads!!! [message #241550 is a reply to message #239741 ] Sat, 17 March 2007 01:51 Go to previous message
LaurieBeth  is currently offline LaurieBeth
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2006
Senior Member
Lisa R. wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 07:04

We've got several threads about discipline going on right now, and I find my heart bothered by them, partly worried that I've spoken too much and will lead someone astray, but there's just been a nagging, unsettled feeling about them that I can't put my finger on. I finally figured it out this morning!

Here's the deal. People are asking about specific incidents or patterns in their children that indicate a discipline "issue," typically an attitude or character trait of rebellion. Then most of us are addressing that, and we're getting into philosophies and ideas of correction needed to fix that trait or keep that incident or pattern from recurring.

The problem is--That's only one small part of having a godly relationship with your child and a godly family!

In considering my posts, it probably sounds like I walk around with the paddle smacking my kids 50 times a day. In fact, when they were young, I sort of felt that way sometimes. Rolling Eyes But, when someone asks a question, I share various incidents in our lives that have occurred over the last 20 years--not just last week!

So, I thought I'd share how a typical day goes. This morning the phone woke us up (Sad) and my 4-yo came and snuggled with me for a few minutes. 13yo came talked with us for a bit. I got up to take my shower, and dh returned the phone call (we don't wake up quickly!). When I came downstairs, my 13yo had my coffee ready (she and my 9 yo enjoy doing that for me. I don't ask them, but I think it's pretty cool! Smile). I greeted the 7 yo with a hug and now she and my 4yo are playing quietly on the computer. Everyone else is still asleep (we have an out of town guest and my teens were up watching a movie and yakking till way late).

In a few minutes, we'll get the others up and get moving for the day. Breakfast will be a free-for-all of cereal, which will involve kids going back and forth in the kitchen and laughing and giggling. I'll probably ask them to be quiet, and they probably will quieten down. We'll eat and then get to our morning chores and school.

During chores, someone is likely to speak sharply to someone else (you thought this was going to be one of those homeschool magazine "ideal day" things, didn't you?! Laughing ), or someone will say in that obnoxious, whiny voice, "She's not helping. I'm the only one doing anything around here."

Now from my recent posts, you'd probably think there'd be a big ol' honking discipline issue with spankings and reminders of first time obedience and so forth. NOT!

I'll likely say, "Hey. quit bickering and everyone get back to work," and they most likely will.

Not every incident IS a rebellious attitude requiring an all-out correction. Sometimes it's just the day to day "friction" of 10-11 people living in a small space and all that's needed is a simple reminder. You don't use a shotgun to get rid of a mosquito.

We do have times during the day when I have to say something to my kids, but after training them well before the age of say, 5, then after that, it's usually just a quick reminder for most things, and then life goes on pleasantly as a rule.

My household is CHARACTERIZED by pleasantness, and we TYPICALLY have exhibit close relationships as the day goes on. The things I'm mentioning in the posts on discipline questions are for pretty rare things (less rare for my 7 yo, but improving). The suggestions I've made are for moving a child/family from a family that is characterized by a mom exhausting from "battling" a child all day over school and chores and attitudes, to a family that is characterized by their love for one another and the obedience of the children. The things I suggest are for handling a crisis or negative pattern, and turning the "family ship" around to the right heading---NOT for every day, all the time family relationships!

I just finally realized that is what was bugging me. It would be too easy to read my posts and think that's what life is like all the time at our house, when really it's not. The posts reflect what life is like at times when we've let things slide and need to whip things back into shape, but it's really a small percentage of what we're all about here.

I just felt that I needed to clarify that, as I was feeling negative and couldn't figure out why. It was the one-sidedness of the presentation dealing with a specific issue that bothered me.

Y'all have a great day and enjoy your kids! Smile


Nicely said Lisa! Smile


Blessings,
LaurieBeth


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. "
~Ann Landers

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