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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Concealed carry permit - your thoughts
Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814933] Tue, 08 December 2015 10:14 Go to next message
Rosemary-MI  is currently offline Rosemary-MI
Messages: 1313
Registered: April 2005
Location: Lower mid Michigan
Senior Member
This is getting a lot of discussion in our house as of late. I have no problem with anyone getting a concealed carry permit if they are trained. I just don't think that it is that necessary for the general public to have these. I guess you have to weigh the risks but i just don't see it. I think there is more risk getting into a car and driving somewhere then anything else. I'm more likely to be hit by a distracted driver at this point.

I see more risk of accidental shootings. That seems more frighting to me. I just hope people are well trained, we have seen the classes and they are not that intense. What do you think?

~Rosemary


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814945 is a reply to message #814933 ] Tue, 08 December 2015 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

I hope that folks are wise when they choose to carry. I hope that they are well-trained. I seriously hope they know the law as well as how to handle their weapons. It is HUGE responsibility. I think if more folks did carry, we'd have less crime. Actually, that's not just something I think; statistics bear it out. Also, you'll notice that most of the massacres we're having take place in gun-free zones, such as schools.

I'm seeing more and more stories like this one, lately: http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-driver-with-concealed-ha ndgun-prevents-mass-shooting-in-chicago-2015-4 The just don't seem to make mainstream media.

That having been said, I don't advertise the fact, but I have a carry permit. It's up for renewal, so I've carried for 5 years...and in all that time have never had any need to use my weapon. I praise the Lord for that.

Like anything else, I'm sure there are careless folks and idiots who don't have any business having a gun. But also like anything else, most folks who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights do so responsibly. I am not willing to advocate abridging Constitutional rights because there is the possibility that someone might abuse them. (Any Constitutional right, btw, not just this one).

I hope I haven't been too hot...I won't be able to check back on this conversation till tomorrow evening, most likely, so if anyone says anything, I'm not ignoring you. Smile


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814957 is a reply to message #814945 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karen in TN  is currently offline Karen in TN
Messages: 1649
Registered: April 2005
Location: TN
Senior Member
[quote title=Lisa R. wrote on Tue, 08 December 2015 21:44]
That having been said, I don't advertise the fact, but I have a carry permit. It's up for renewal, so I've carried for 5 years...and in all that time have never had any need to use my weapon. I praise the Lord for that.

quote]

WOE. Lisa's packin' heat! Very Happy


wife of 31 years to Richard, Mom to Matthew (26), Adra 24, Shelby 15, Samuel 13, and Ruby Grace 11. Homeschooling for 19 years.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814961 is a reply to message #814933 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teri in AZ  is currently offline Teri in AZ
Messages: 4072
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Senior Member

My son carries, usually concealed, but often open, both of which are legal here. My daughter carries as well. In fact we were chatting last night at our staff party, and just about all the men, and probably 1/2 the women there were likely packing. If you were to come into our church on any given Sunday, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that there is a concealed weapon within 10 feet of you no matter where you are. On staff alone out of 17 people (men and women both), 5 pack daily THAT I KNOW OF. I suspect the number is actually higher.

Tom is seriously considering getting a gun, probably next year, and I'm considering it as well. Matt is taking lessons - he goes shooting with his girlfriend (who works in a gun shop) frequently. I will take training, and so will Tom. It's a sad state of affairs that we have to live this way now.


Teri in AZ

God is still on the Throne.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814964 is a reply to message #814933 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rosemary-MI  is currently offline Rosemary-MI
Messages: 1313
Registered: April 2005
Location: Lower mid Michigan
Senior Member
It worries me that enthusiastic people will get one and think they can do something that they can't. I hear, all the time, people say "I got a 9mm or a .38 at my house and if anyone breaks in I can shoot them".

My first question to them is- "Have you ever shot a gun inside in the dark? You would be instantly blind and deaf and if there is a second intruder you will not see or hear them."

Do people train for these situations? Or do they "think" what they would do?

Don't get me wrong-I don't disagree with concealed carry, I just hope there is excellent training involved. We have a slew of weapons (including wasp spray that shoots 20') and know how to use them in various situations. It just bothers me when I see law enforcement encouraging everyone to get a gun and carry at all times. Some people just shouldn't.

~Rosemary


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814968 is a reply to message #814933 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karen in TN  is currently offline Karen in TN
Messages: 1649
Registered: April 2005
Location: TN
Senior Member
I heard on the radio that somebody, maybe the Fraternal Order of Police, had asked the NFL to allow off duty and retired officers to carry into NFL stadiums where presently no firearms are allowed. I thought that was an excellent idea.

My husband has gone through the carry class, but then never paid the $100 to the government for the license. He has to start over now. He wants one because he just has a primal need to protect his family. If we were in a theatre or out to dinner and something happened, however unlikely, he would want to protect us.

Karen in TN


wife of 31 years to Richard, Mom to Matthew (26), Adra 24, Shelby 15, Samuel 13, and Ruby Grace 11. Homeschooling for 19 years.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814969 is a reply to message #814964 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
Messages: 497
Registered: August 2007
Senior Member
Hi Rosemary,

Quote:

My first question to them is- "Have you ever shot a gun inside in the dark? You would be instantly blind and deaf and if there is a second intruder you will not see or hear them."


That may be true, but a more basic question in that situation would be to ask whether a person would rather have a gun, or not have a gun, during a home invasion?

Yes, I know that the presence of a gun *could* escalate the situation, but having a gun *could* just as easily defuse the situation. All things being equal, I think most would rather have a gun. Even so, personal anecdotal scenarios are always tailored to make alternative viewpoints look ridiculous, which makes it hard for all things to be equal!

Now philosophically speaking, I think that having a law requiring a 'concealed carry permit' when the constitution has already given US citizens that right via the second amendment seems superfluous.

That's like a Church needing a permit to gather together to worship God when the first amendment already guarantees that right. Or a newspaper needing a permit to print opinions (also in the first amendment.)

Not disagreeing with you, Rosemary, just throwing out some more food for thought!

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814976 is a reply to message #814964 ] Wed, 09 December 2015 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Rosemary-MI wrote on Wed, 09 December 2015 09:19

It worries me that enthusiastic people will get one and think they can do something that they can't. I hear, all the time, people say "I got a 9mm or a .38 at my house and if anyone breaks in I can shoot them".

This probably sounds horribly callous, but if someone is "enthusiastic" and isn't willing to understand what they are doing, and they use a gun in a home invasion with bad results for themselves...well, it's a hard lesson, but sometimes experience is the best teacher.

I personally do not worry at all about that scenario. The burglar, sadly, may pay the ultimate price for his crime, and the irresponsible homeowner may be the ultimate price for his willful ignorance. As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid, and I have much more important things to worry about. It is sad, and I certainly pray that both parties know Jesus, but the crime and consequences are pretty self-contained in that scenario.


My first question to them is- "Have you ever shot a gun inside in the dark? You would be instantly blind and deaf and if there is a second intruder you will not see or hear them."

Do people train for these situations? Or do they "think" what they would do?Many states require training; in those that don't (like mine) training is readily available. Also, in some areas, people are just raised around guns and learn to handle them from a young age. We were just commenting the other day, that we hear gunshots regularly around here, and think nothing of it. I know that some folks have a bit of a private shooting range not far from here in the woods, and there is hunting regularly as well. In other states, maybe that's not a thing, and perhaps "city folks" who know nothing about guns would be prompted to go get one...but generally folks who are not comfortable with guns tend to be afraid of them and prefer not to carry. In the end, it is my personal opinion (with absolutely no evidence to back it up), that most folks who choose to have a gun learn to use it...and those who don't tend to take themselves out of the equation sooner or later. I do think there could be cause for concern about innocent bystanders being shot, but again, I suspect that is not something that happens frequently enough to warrant abridging Constitutional rights of the general citizenry when it is specifically written that said right shall not be infringed.

Don't get me wrong-I don't disagree with concealed carry, I just hope there is excellent training involved. Me, too! We have a slew of weapons (including wasp spray that shoots 20') and know how to use them in various situations. It just bothers me when I see law enforcement encouraging everyone to get a gun and carry at all times. Some people just shouldn't.
Some people just shouldn't do a LOT of things!!
~Rosemary


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814982 is a reply to message #814933 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
Messages: 5497
Registered: April 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Senior Member
Sometimes when I'm doing a challenging math problem, I find it helpful to look at the extreme possibilities to clarify the issue. I know this is probably reductio ad adsurdem, but it might be interesting to answer this question:

In which situation would I be safer?

  • A world where everybody has a gun
  • A world where nobody has a gun


I'm not offering an opinion. (I live in an area where many people have guns for hunting or target practice, and I don't have a big problem with that...in fact I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle myself). This question is merely food for thought. Obviously, neither situation is a realistic one...

I would also ask the question: What did our founding fathers have in mind in 1789 as their compelling reason for the second amendment? Do the same compelling reasons (or other equally compelling ones) exist today?

The whole issue of the second amendment is a challenging one for us today. I find the news about mass shootings (too numerous now to mention specifically) to be especially disturbing. I worry about my children, who have concealed carry permits, and hope they never have occasion to use their weapons, and that they use them wisely if the need arises. I hate the idea that we are living in such a lawless world that I need to carry a firearm to feel safe. I hate carrying out "shooter drills" at school with my students, cowering in a closet with my class while we wait for the all clear signal.

All that said, I think the answer to the initial question I proposed is fairly clear. Too bad it is unattainable.


Lisa T.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814984 is a reply to message #814982 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

For the record, I'm not proposing that everyone have a gun, or that we are made safer by guns. Our safety is in the Lord's hands, and the world forgets (or doesn't know that!)

I read an interesting article studying crime in Great Britain (I seem to recall) where guns are banned and hard to obtain. It seems that murders and attacks by knife increased by some huge percentage.

I think we must remember what God observed in Genesis 6 (I think)...He saw that every inclination of the heart of man was always evil all the time.

Without Christ, I think that's where we stand. With Him, we have new hearts, but the vast majority of the population is without Him.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #814993 is a reply to message #814984 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hyzenthlay
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2009
Location: NEPA
Senior Member
This is getting a lot of discussion in our house as of late.

This has always been a point of discussion, in our home. My husband and I have both struggled with safety issues and fear from PTSD. We have each handled it differently; his approach influenced me earlier in our marriage. I am no longer so and have become self-aware when I feel anxiety, how it affects me and how I handle it. My PTSD came from a onetime incident and after a long delay I was helped with counseling. My husband’s comes from years of abuse from a step father and is so much more a part of who he is and a much slower healing. I have empathy for people who rationalize answering violence with violence. I have been there. I am in a different place and yet still must live in this world. I confess my fears and find comfort. The harder thing is having compassion and not a condescending attitude towards my brothers and sisters who succumb to rationalizing, answering violence with violence as a chosen answer to their fears.

I have no problem with anyone getting a concealed carry permit if they are trained. I just don't think that it is that necessary for the general public to have these. I guess you have to weigh the risks but i just don't see it. I think there is more risk getting into a car and driving somewhere then anything else. I'm more likely to be hit by a distracted driver at this point.
I would like to see more requirements, safety, law, on gun ownership and permits.


I see more risk of accidental shootings. That seems more frighting to me. I just hope people are well trained, we have seen the classes and they are not that intense. What do you think?
There are increased accidental shootings, especially involving children, and I am seeing vigilante murders where armed citizens are taking justice into their own hands.

We have taken hunter safety classes and participated in organized shooting competitions. The past few have not been supervised as well as they should be. There has not been the needed increase in instructors to account for the newly interested participants to follow safety rules, and be patient. The quality of instructors has also declined, they are unable to stay on topic for safety, and seem more interested in sharing personal opinions and rhetoric on gun law. These classes are at a private gun club with NRA instructors at NRA events.

My brother belongs to a gun club in a more populated area of our state. His club decided to increase the number of members. From the increase in fees, they have done a lead reclamation cleaning on their berms, and rebuilt them higher because of the encroachment in their area of housing. They added both more ranges and distance, renovated their club house and numerous other improvements. There has been no measurable increase in use of the range by their new members. Gun club membership seems to have the same follow through as gym memberships.

We have always been a family who both hunt and shoot as a sport. Our children have been trained from an early age with gun safety. My husband and I agreed we would not raise our children to be desensitized to shooting people. We have only used bull’s eye type targets and animal silhouettes. When they were young they also were only allowed to play hunting games and aim their rubber band guns at stuffed animals, never at people. I chose water pistols that did not look like real guns and had to make a verbal exception for their use. As our culture has changed, my husband and I are struggling on reaching agreement in these things. We just keep listening, till we hear each other.

I do not rationalize something is right, because it is legal. We need more discussion, understanding, information sharing, and self examination of what motivates us. Our country needs to be less divided by believing in our own understanding and dismissing the other's , and to come together to work out solutions to our problems.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #815017 is a reply to message #814933 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diana P.  is currently offline Diana P.
Messages: 4039
Registered: April 2005
Location: New England
Senior Member
My husband has a license to carry permit, and has had one for many years. He is well trained to use it if necessary, however, he doesn't carry it around everywhere he goes, either.

There are certain places and situations where he would feel the need to have it with him, but generally speaking, he doesn't carry it everywhere he goes, as if it was a cell phone.

I have no problem with with people packing heat, unless they are just more interested in being "yahoos" and waving the things around, trying to be big shots <no pun intended>


Grace & Peace,
Diana

"Do your best, then rest"

Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #815023 is a reply to message #814993 ] Thu, 10 December 2015 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Quote:


I would like to see more requirements, safety, law, on gun ownership and permits.


Might have to start a bunny trail on government control and who gets to decide what the requirements are and who enforces them. Cool


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #815115 is a reply to message #815023 ] Wed, 16 December 2015 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hyzenthlay
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2009
Location: NEPA
Senior Member
Lisa R. wrote on Thu, 10 December 2015 23:14

Quote:


I would like to see more requirements, safety, law, on gun ownership and permits.


Might have to start a bunny trail on government control and who gets to decide what the requirements are and who enforces them. Cool




After Christmas, too busy now .
Becky
Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #815361 is a reply to message #815115 ] Wed, 06 January 2016 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michele (Queen of Cheap)  is currently offline Michele (Queen of Cheap)
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Location: Georgia
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Dh and I are both retired cops and we both have concealed weapons permits.


Michele, The Organic Queen of Cheap!
(aka Shelly the Swamp Frog)

Happily posting on CHF since 1995


Re: Concealed carry permit - your thoughts [message #815553 is a reply to message #814964 ] Mon, 18 January 2016 22:57 Go to previous message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
Rosemary, You are probably right: some people just shouldnt.

But others can and should. The classes are very good. At the very least, if your class is not good, take another with another instructor. Ideally a permit holder would sit thru a class every year or 2 and would handle their gun regularly.

A policeman friend told me that every evening,before bed, he handles each of his guns ( empty). This is really good advice,I think.

A responsible gun owner is also going to practice shoot. And , as odd as it sounds, is going to *practice* carrying until he or she feels comfortable with it.


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
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An example of sibling rivalry from the first family. ... Barbara writes, "Going back to Genesis 4 -- interestingly titled in an NIV Study Bible as "The Beginnings of Civilization" -- Two brothers and one attitude problem."

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