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Home » CHFWeb Forum » BibleIssues » How do you see this in the modern church??
How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #788479] Mon, 21 October 2013 17:27 Go to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

So, I see the apostles, the teachers, the helping, the guidance.... where are the prophets in our modern church? What do they do? WHO are they?

And why were they so important in the NT church?


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #789363 is a reply to message #788479 ] Sat, 02 November 2013 06:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michelle, IL  is currently offline Michelle, IL
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~Janice wrote on Mon, 21 October 2013 16:27

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

So, I see the apostles, the teachers, the helping, the guidance.... where are the prophets in our modern church? What do they do? WHO are they?

And why were they so important in the NT church?


I think it was "important" in the NT church because these gifts were being used by the Lord for "expediency" (1Cor12:7) I think expediency is a better translation that "profit". The idea of expediency is a means to an end to get things moving; get people to maturity - for example.

The context of 1Cor12 is about the body - all for the good of the body. I see the items listed in the verse you gave as functions - not offices/positions. In the body people will have different functions that all work for the whole body. Of course, since christendom is so segregated into tens of thousands of denominational groups, I'm pretty sure we're missing some of the benefits of the functions of others.

Eph4:11's list comes later in Paul's writings and is a shorter list - "Eph4:11 and He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers,

In this section of 1Cor is the idea of maturing, and some of the gifts ceasing. Although, it is not my point to limit anything the Lord can do. I just don't because, "It's in the Bible" means we have to do it or see it.

I was just involved in a conversation with someone asking if baptism for the dead could be "scriptural" because it's in the Bible in 1Cor15:29. I responded that I think some of the people Paul was addressing were people who performed baptisms for the dead -( like he was reasoning with "pagans" in Acts 17.) Yet these people - even though they performed baptisms for the dead did not believe in the resurrection of Christ and of people through Christ.

So Paul was simply reasoning with them - "Why are you bothering to be baptized for the dead when you don't believe they have any future life?"

So anyway Wink - I think that we need to consider who and for what purpose things were written; and just because it's in the Bible - even written by Jesus and Paul - that it's something we have to see/participate in. Ultimately 1Cor12 was leading into 1Cor13 which tells us all those gifts are for naught and meaningless without love.


Wife to 1. Mom to 4 dds ages 20, 18, 8 & 8 and 1 one wonderful ds (age 15) right in the middle of those 4 girls.
Re: How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #791239 is a reply to message #788479 ] Sun, 01 December 2013 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
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Just passing through.

Janice, I am interested in your impression of apostle in the modern day church. Would you share? Thanks!


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #791242 is a reply to message #791239 ] Sun, 01 December 2013 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Dina wrote on Sun, 01 December 2013 03:15

Just passing through.

Janice, I am interested in your impression of apostle in the modern day church. Would you share? Thanks!


My understanding is that to be an apostle you had to have seen Jesus in person and been taught/discipled by Him, as His witnesses to the world. (Acts 1:21-22). Although late to the game, Paul was an apostle because he received His teaching directly from Jesus. Gal. 1:11-12. (Also see Acts 9:15)


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #791272 is a reply to message #791242 ] Sun, 01 December 2013 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
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Lisa R. wrote on Sun, 01 December 2013 03:32

Dina wrote on Sun, 01 December 2013 03:15

Just passing through.

Janice, I am interested in your impression of apostle in the modern day church. Would you share? Thanks!


My understanding is that to be an apostle you had to have seen Jesus in person and been taught/discipled by Him, as His witnesses to the world. (Acts 1:21-22). Although late to the game, Paul was an apostle because he received His teaching directly from Jesus. Gal. 1:11-12. (Also see Acts 9:15)


Thank you, Lisa. Tho I have walked with the Lord for many years, this is where I am in this belief for the most part. It is actually a newish understanding of the word for me. Yet,so simple.

Without this simplicity it becomes confusing to me,with so many giving themselves,or taking on titles bearing the name Apostle these days....that never sat quite right with me.

But this then raises a question re: the question Janice is originally asking. Is the word CHURCH in this passage talking about the church for all time, or the church over time? hmmm. good discussion to have with dh.


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: How do you see this in the modern church?? [message #791283 is a reply to message #791272 ] Sun, 01 December 2013 16:47 Go to previous message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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That would likely depend on whether you're a cessationist or not. Meaning, what you believe about it would depend on whether you're a cessationist or not. I believe GOD sees it one way (see my interpretation post...this would be one of those things I ponder.Smile)

I have not yet come to terms with cessation or not. I assumed one way and am leaning another, but I am in that vague not-quite-knowing place where some of what I ultimately believe or understand will depend on definitions.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
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