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Home » CHFWeb Forum » BibleIssues » What does this mean, from a theological standpoint?
What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785100] Mon, 19 August 2013 05:10 Go to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14921
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

I found this in a church website's "Belief and Identity" page:

We believe that God is gracious and faithful to His people, not simply as individuals but as families in successive generations according to His Covenant promises.

That is an unfamiliar statement, and I'm wondering what the implications are.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785101 is a reply to message #785100 ] Mon, 19 August 2013 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Barbara K (NC)
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Registered: April 2005
Location: North Carolina
Senior Member
We have some churches nearby that believe that part of a father's responsibility is to come up with a 200 year plan for their children, grandchildren, et al. This is part of a hyper-patriarchy belief and involves heavy control of one's offspring. I've heard language like what you describe from those churches and wonder if it's part of that movement.


Barbara K (NC)

"And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." 2 Cor 9:8


Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785107 is a reply to message #785100 ] Mon, 19 August 2013 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teri in AZ  is currently offline Teri in AZ
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
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I don't know for sure but it sounds like a cove tail-salvation type of church. Kind the same as Barbara mentions.


Edit - can you tell I was typing on my IPad, and didn't come back to this until now??? That was supposed to be covenant type salvation! Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Fri, 23 August 2013 05:29]


Teri in AZ

God is still on the Throne.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785111 is a reply to message #785100 ] Mon, 19 August 2013 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin H.  is currently offline Robin H.
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Sounds just like a reformed church to me; Covenant theology. Infant baptism, etc. It doesn't have to be crazy. Of COURSE, baptism doesn't save, in case you're wondering if I'm saying that. But God throughout Scripture works a lot through families. Not always. We are all adopted into the Kingdom through the blood of Christ. Our faith, through the work of the Holy Spirit in changing our hearts of stone to hearts of flesh, has to be an individual saving faith, but part of the Body of Christ nevertheless.

Clear as mud.
Quick answer. Got to go.
Robin H.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785377 is a reply to message #785111 ] Thu, 22 August 2013 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Location: Small Town New Hampshire
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Some of those ideas are sometimes based on the jailer's response: me, and my house...from what our friends have shared.

Interesting...


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785544 is a reply to message #785107 ] Sat, 24 August 2013 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
janetR  is currently offline janetR
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Registered: March 2010
Location: TX
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Teri in AZ wrote on Mon, 19 August 2013 04:29

I don't know for sure but it sounds like a cove tail-salvation type of church. Kind the same as Barbara mentions.


Edit - can you tell I was typing on my IPad, and didn't come back to this until now??? That was supposed to be covenant type salvation! Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm sorry but I just can't quit laughing. This is the funniest text-predict error I've ever seen. And what makes it funnier is that I just assumed that Teri really knew what she was talking about and that there must be some theological belief in cove tail-salvation. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


JanetR
daughter of the King since 1980
wife to dh since 1981
mom to five of the most incredible adults on the planet, one wonderful 18yo, and grandma to two bouncy grandsons
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785567 is a reply to message #785544 ] Sun, 25 August 2013 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teri in AZ  is currently offline Teri in AZ
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
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janetR wrote on Sat, 24 August 2013 08:30

Teri in AZ wrote on Mon, 19 August 2013 04:29

I don't know for sure but it sounds like a cove tail-salvation type of church. Kind the same as Barbara mentions.


Edit - can you tell I was typing on my IPad, and didn't come back to this until now??? That was supposed to be covenant type salvation! Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm sorry but I just can't quit laughing. This is the funniest text-predict error I've ever seen. And what makes it funnier is that I just assumed that Teri really knew what she was talking about and that there must be some theological belief in cove tail-salvation. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Teri in AZ

God is still on the Throne.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785644 is a reply to message #785100 ] Tue, 27 August 2013 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Well...if that's not funny enough, I assumed it was a typo, but not "covenant." I thought maybe she meant "dovetail" and figured I'd google it. I actually ended up finding some sites on Calvinism and such....so, perhaps it wasn't as far off as it might have been. Smile

BTW...thanks for the thoughts. I slammed right up into a busy few days and haven't been able to follow through with thinking about this.

Basically, I read it on a church website, and didn't know if it was something about which I was ignorant, or perhaps something worded awkwardly, or a genuine red flag.

Barbara, I actually have copy of a CD set for a 200 year plan (given to me)...but I never did listen to it, with time being rather in short supply, and hearing enough to make me feel it probably wasn't what I was looking for.

I've also heard the Acts 16 passage regarding the "and your household" as being a guarantee of the salvation of one's children.

I've go a lot of pieces...but it seems I need to do a little more research to put the puzzle together in my head. I do believe God is gracious to families as well as to individuals (and that the unbelieving in a believing family can experience God's blessings simply by being there)...but I'm not up for accepting that individuals are saved on the faith of those who come before them. I just wondered if that was what the statement probably meant.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785650 is a reply to message #785101 ] Tue, 27 August 2013 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Barbara K (NC) wrote on Mon, 19 August 2013 03:16

We have some churches nearby that believe that part of a father's responsibility is to come up with a 200 year plan for their children, grandchildren, et al. This is part of a hyper-patriarchy belief and involves heavy control of one's offspring. I've heard language like what you describe from those churches and wonder if it's part of that movement.


Wow, if that isn't man trying to be God I don't know what is. I trust that God will deal with each and everyone of my children in His way. I trust that He doesn't need me, or anyone else, to "make sure" that His will prevails. Man so desires to be "in control".




TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #785652 is a reply to message #785111 ] Tue, 27 August 2013 06:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Robin H. wrote on Mon, 19 August 2013 03:42

... God throughout Scripture works a lot through families. Not always. We are all adopted into the Kingdom through the blood of Christ. Our faith, through the work of the Holy Spirit in changing our hearts of stone to hearts of flesh, has to be an individual saving faith, but part of the Body of Christ nevertheless.

Clear as mud.
Quick answer. Got to go.



Not unclear. I agree with this thinking. Smile


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #786052 is a reply to message #785644 ] Mon, 02 September 2013 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin H.  is currently offline Robin H.
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Registered: April 2006
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Lisa, maybe other churches have this exact sentence on their website. But I googled it and it's on the website of a very prominent, solid, Bible-believing church of my denomination. In their case, it is NOT saying that the children of believers are necessarily believers, that baptism saves. Baptism is a means of grace, like reading the Bible. Not all who are baptized as infants or at some other point for that matter believe and not all who read the Bible are necessarily saved. Salvation is by faith and baptism is a sign of the visible church. But Covenant theology, which this looks to be stating in part, is an affirmation that the covenant of Abraham who was chosen and circumcised by God, he and his family after, apply to us also as we are grafted in under grace through Jesus' finished work on the cross. That's why "Father Abraham had many sons . . ." as the song says.

Infant baptism is the "circumcision" of the body which will lead to the circumcision of the heart as believers, usually, but not always. God is sovereign, just, and good, and His grace through Jesus is applied to our hearts by the Holy Spirit when and if He wills it.

This is a huge topic. Some references are Acts Romans 4:11, Acts 10.


It's also an affirmation that the OT is relevant, always. We don't put it away because we have the new. All scripture is God-breathed and God's covenants endure.

Robin H.

[Updated on: Mon, 02 September 2013 10:55]

Re: What does this mean, from a theological standpoint? [message #786119 is a reply to message #786052 ] Tue, 03 September 2013 09:17 Go to previous message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14921
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Thank you, Robin.

The thing is, the statement says, "gracious...to," not "will save," so jumping to a generational salvation conclusion, is, well, a jump.

But then, sometimes phrases are sort of "codes" or "shortcuts" to denominational understandings that "outsiders" might not grasp just be reading the printed words.

I actually agree with the words as they stand alone. I just wondered if I might be missing something that lay beneath the words.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
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