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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Women working...
Women working... [message #705991] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:05 Go to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Women Working Poll[ 55 vote(s) ]
1.Women may work outside the home 26 / 47%
2.Women may not work outside the home 0 / 0%
3.Women may do paid work, but it must be at home 0 / 0%
4.Women may not do paid work at home 0 / 0%
5.It depends on the woman's situation, whether she is married or not, whether she has children or not, whether women may work outside the home 18 / 33%
6.Some combo 4 / 7%
7.Something else 7 / 13%

Here's a poll. What do you think, and is it a conviction or a preference? What is it based on?


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Women working... [message #706004 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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I do not see any Biblical reason to say that women must *not* be in paid employment or that women should not work outside the home. Therefore I would conclude that it is not forbidden - it is up to the woman/family to decide with Christian freedom. I think it would be quite wrong for a pastor/church to require this of women in the congregation - this would be a form of legalism, IMHO. (It would be different if a woman herself were convicted - I'm just saying that this restriction of her liberty should *never* be imposed from the outside.)

Also, I think this is something that varies through a woman's life. There may be times when she decides to devote all her time to her home and children (I have done this at times) and times when she spends a lot of time either working or ministering outside the home. I don't think that this is a static "once and forever" decision.


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Women working... [message #706022 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jen E.  is currently offline Jen E.
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This is a decision to be made with the woman, her dh, and God.
Re: Women working... [message #706029 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
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I don't think it is a matter of "may," so much as it is a matter of "should," and "when."


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: Women working... [message #706040 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K in nc  is currently offline K in nc
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Of course they can, but should they.

That is the question to me, and honestly, my opinions on this have changed over the years. I believe each woman must make the decision that is in the best interest of her family.


Wife to the most wonderful man in the world for 27 years! Mom to the three most wonderful kids in the world! (well most of the time)
Re: Women working... [message #706042 is a reply to message #706022 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teri in AZ  is currently offline Teri in AZ
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Jen E. wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 04:50

This is a decision to be made with the woman, her dh, and God.


Ditto Smile


Teri in AZ

God is still on the Throne.
Re: Women working... [message #706044 is a reply to message #706004 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa M.
Messages: 347
Registered: May 2005
Location: Indiana
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Elizabby wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 23:33

I do not see any Biblical reason to say that women must *not* be in paid employment or that women should not work outside the home. Therefore I would conclude that it is not forbidden - it is up to the woman/family to decide with Christian freedom. I think it would be quite wrong for a pastor/church to require this of women in the congregation - this would be a form of legalism, IMHO. (It would be different if a woman herself were convicted - I'm just saying that this restriction of her liberty should *never* be imposed from the outside.)

Also, I think this is something that varies through a woman's life. There may be times when she decides to devote all her time to her home and children (I have done this at times) and times when she spends a lot of time either working or ministering outside the home. I don't think that this is a static "once and forever" decision.


Agree.


Lisa

Re: Women working... [message #706046 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
denise d
Messages: 6330
Registered: April 2005
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I think it is fine for women to work. I think that it is better if at all possible for moms to be home with small children. I think that it is important for a parent to be home with older children, if they are not home schooling , then when they get home from school. Older children are so independent in many ways, and at the same time often more needy.

I agree with Jen and Teri in that it is between her and her dh and family.

The considerations that are important, in my opinion:

-age of children

-necessity (this is most of the time financial, but sometimes otherwise)

-proximity and suitability of family members who might help with care

Bunny trail, but I think it's related:

I found myself in the position a few days ago of defending a position that I am not in full agreement on. The person, whom I love, brought up something that she is finding more and more, that we did not see very often "twenty years ago". Senior officers in the military, when they start doing the short assignments - are going by themselves more and more often and leaving the family behind. I think there are a couple, maybe three, very significant factors that play in this, along with other factors. One of them is that the wives sometimes have jobs they really love. People are having children later in life. It used to be that by the time an officer was a colonel or general, they were grandparents. That is not so any more. More often, they have children who are in the midst of high school or even junior high. Some may even be in elementary school. Going to four different high schools would not be on any kid's checklist of things to do in life. A football star at one school as a freshman may get to sit on the bench at the next school and not even have a chance to prove himself. etc etc.

Anyway, I won't get into the particulars of all that, because any decision is hard and made for a variety of reasons with each individual decision being made according to the needs of that family. The person I was talking to made a blanket statement, one size fits all, and that just never works for me.

I feel the same way about women working. Family should be priority. Each family making such a decision will do it with their own set of criteria and their own needs and reasoning to be considered, prayerfully, I hope.


And then, there are seasons of life, and I think there are little seasons within those where focus shifts. I feel that right now, I am standing at the edge of an expanse and need to make even more decisions about what to throw myself into. It's fun and at the same time, kind of scary. But mostly fun.


[Updated on: Fri, 01 July 2011 11:01]


God is Love.
Re: Women working... [message #706055 is a reply to message #706042 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diana P.  is currently offline Diana P.
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Teri in AZ wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 09:54

Jen E. wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 04:50

This is a decision to be made with the woman, her dh, and God.


Ditto Smile

Double ditto. Laughing


Grace & Peace,
Diana

"Do your best, then rest"

Re: Women working... [message #706060 is a reply to message #705991 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emily
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Southeast Ohio
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I put #5. Looking at it as a single woman, I will *have* to work until (if) I get married just to support myself. I have no problem with a married woman working, either. When (if) I have kids, then I'll reconsider -- since I think a mom, if financially possible, needs to be home with little ones all the time. I'm not opposed to a woman working outside the home when her children are older if the job is part time and/or flexible so she can still be available to the children, but the children need to be her first priority.


Emily
Re: Women working... [message #706189 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sat, 02 July 2011 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
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I selected #5. The phrasing "may" coupled with the question about what "it" is based on (I'm presuming the prior sentences "conviction" and "preference"?) throws me. I don't understand the context of the question. Some are taking it as if it is a biblical inquiry, a religious choice or simply if it is humanly possible for a woman. Without some context the answer can be all over the place, I think. So, my "depends" answer really is a "depends" on context...and then I think would enter in the concept of "should." But, that's just me.

[Updated on: Sat, 02 July 2011 11:22]


Peace
Re: Women working... [message #706278 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sun, 03 July 2011 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ReneeL.inMN
Messages: 4774
Registered: April 2005
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My personal preference is to be at home. It doesn't work that way in all situations. My brother in law has been home with their child from the start while his wife works. He was home at first because of a job loss, then after 6 weeks of maternity leave his wife decided she **really** did not like being home and she's a much better Mom when she's a working Mom. SO, bil stayed home, did free lance to bring in money and sister in law had an out of home job. It's worked well for 14+ years.


ReneeL.inMN
25yos, 23yos, 13 yod I guess I am old enough for adult children.

My stomach hurts, but I still choose joy! :-)

Re: Women working... [message #706420 is a reply to message #705991 ] Mon, 04 July 2011 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MartySC  is currently offline MartySC
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I believe that women may work, as we all have freedom in Christ. However, I think women should be taught, from a young age, that the best is for women to be keepers at home, giving highest priority to husbands, children, and housekeeping.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a woman having a small cottage industry from her home, as long as it doesn't take away from time with her children and husband, or cause her to neglect her housework.

I personally would discourage a woman from getting a job outside the home for two reasons. First is, how can she be a "keeper at home" if she is not at home? (I know different translations say "keeper of home", and other things, but having looked at the Greek, I believe "keeper at home" to be the best translation. YMMV) Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.

I realize that my opinion is not the one shared by most people in this group, but it is the one I find when I study scripture. It is also the view held by my husband. It is not something I wold judge others for, I hope. Each wife must do as her husband directs her. Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 12:55]


Wife to my best friend, Mom to 18yog, 16yob, 14yob, 12yob, 11yob, 6yog, and five lost to miscarriage
Re: Women working... [message #706425 is a reply to message #706420 ] Mon, 04 July 2011 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
praise2christ  is currently offline praise2christ
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Marty, I'm quoting you, not to pick on you, but because when I read this I was struck by a few different things. For background, I do work part-time outside of the home.

MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 12:53

I believe that women may work, as we all have freedom in Christ. However, I think women should be taught, from a young age, that the best is for women to be keepers at home, giving highest priority to husbands, children, and housekeeping.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a woman having a small cottage industry from her home, as long as it doesn't take away from time with her children and husband, or cause her to neglect her housework.

My priorities are definitely my husband and my children. I would love to say that housekeeping is also on that list, but I would be lying. This is an area I struggle with constantly! But, it has nothing to do with me working. I was just as bad (if not worse) when I was home full-time. Embarassed

I actually believe that, for my family, me having a job honors my DH and brings our family closer together. The economy hit us hard and we were struggling financially. There was a real chance of losing our home. So, the choice became, either I get a part-time job or DH got a second job. He already works 50+ hours a week. Another job would have added stress, caused him to be exhausted, and taken away the little time he has with our kids. Instead, I am able to bring in some extra income, take stress off my DH, and allow us spend more time together as a family.


I personally would discourage a woman from getting a job outside the home for two reasons. First is, how can she be a "keeper at home" if she is not at home? (I know different translations say "keeper of home", and other things, but having looked at the Greek, I believe "keeper at home" to be the best translation. YMMV)

I can see that this would be true if you were working long hours. This is actually a big reason that I switched jobs. I was working 22 hours/week and it took a lot away from my family and home. However, this was a short season of my life and I did pray about it a lot. That job came up when I needed it most and I truly believe God led me to it. Then, when circumstances became such that I could get this new job, He provided that, as well. But, I will add that there are many women I know (my mom for example) who work this many hours and it is barley a blip on the radar of their home life. I simply don't think and function in a way that this amount of time away from the home could not be a huge task for me. This would be an example for me or "it depends on the woman."

Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.
I think this completely depends on the job. I feel no divided loyalty. If DH needed me to stop working there, I would quit. Instead, he appreciates me working and is thankful for my job. I honestly can't think of a situation where I would worry about not submitting to my DH because I have a boss at work. Are there some jobs that this might be the case? Sure. But, not all jobs or probably even most.




Stacy, mom to 12-year-old boy/girl twins and a three-year-old boy.

"Every man's life is a fairy tale written by God's finger." Hans Christian Andersen
Re: Women working... [message #706436 is a reply to message #706420 ] Mon, 04 July 2011 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 12:53

I believe that women may work, as we all have freedom in Christ. However, I think women should be taught, from a young age, that the best is for women to be keepers at home, giving highest priority to husbands, children, and housekeeping.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a woman having a small cottage industry from her home, as long as it doesn't take away from time with her children and husband, or cause her to neglect her housework.

I personally would discourage a woman from getting a job outside the home for two reasons. First is, how can she be a "keeper at home" if she is not at home? (I know different translations say "keeper of home", and other things, but having looked at the Greek, I believe "keeper at home" to be the best translation. YMMV) Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.

I realize that my opinion is not the one shared by most people in this group, but it is the one I find when I study scripture. It is also the view held by my husband. It is not something I wold judge others for, I hope. Each wife must do as her husband directs her. Smile


I am one in this group that does share this opinion. Wink And as Marty stated, I do realize there are circumstances that just don't allow a woman to stay at home, but I believe this is God's best plan and, as such, should be what we strive for.

And as Jenni so succinctly stated, it is between the dw, dh, and God.


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: Women working... [message #706902 is a reply to message #706420 ] Thu, 07 July 2011 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dustybug  is currently offline Dustybug
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MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 11:53

I believe that women may work, as we all have freedom in Christ. However, I think women should be taught, from a young age, that the best is for women to be keepers at home, giving highest priority to husbands, children, and housekeeping.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a woman having a small cottage industry from her home, as long as it doesn't take away from time with her children and husband, or cause her to neglect her housework.

I personally would discourage a woman from getting a job outside the home for two reasons. First is, how can she be a "keeper at home" if she is not at home? (I know different translations say "keeper of home", and other things, but having looked at the Greek, I believe "keeper at home" to be the best translation. YMMV) Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.

I realize that my opinion is not the one shared by most people in this group, but it is the one I find when I study scripture. It is also the view held by my husband. It is not something I wold judge others for, I hope. Each wife must do as her husband directs her. Smile


I'm relatively new to the group, but I agree with you here.


Dusty
Re: Women working... [message #706943 is a reply to message #706420 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elise  is currently offline Elise
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MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 11:53

Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.



I've heard this before, and I must be missing something. If we use this reasoning for men, it would mean they cannot work for anyone else. Hear me out...

My dh is to submit to God, but since he works for someone else, he must also submit to his employer. Does that mean his loyalties are divided? Certainly his time must be divided, but dh can submit to God as well as his employer (unless employer asks him to something wrong - that's a separate issue). Similarly, if I work, I can submit to God, my dh, and my employer. Again, my time will be divided, but not my loyalties.

Even if a woman doesn't work outside the home, she has multiple entities to submit to - God, the government, and (if married) her husband. As long as submitting to God comes first, submitting to others does not divide her loyalties.

JMO


Blessings,
Elise


Wife to Dan
Retired homeschool mom to Emily and Bryan
Academic Resource Tutor at a local high school - basically Mom-at-the-kitchen-table for about 50 students
Re: Women working... [message #706948 is a reply to message #706943 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Elise wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 09:16

MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 11:53

Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.



I've heard this before, and I must be missing something. If we use this reasoning for men, it would mean they cannot work for anyone else. Hear me out...

My dh is to submit to God, but since he works for someone else, he must also submit to his employer. Does that mean his loyalties are divided? Certainly his time must be divided, but dh can submit to God as well as his employer (unless employer asks him to something wrong - that's a separate issue). Similarly, if I work, I can submit to God, my dh, and my employer. Again, my time will be divided, but not my loyalties.

Even if a woman doesn't work outside the home, she has multiple entities to submit to - God, the government, and (if married) her husband. As long as submitting to God comes first, submitting to others does not divide her loyalties.

JMO




I've heard that as well. I don't know if it's a good argument unless there is conflict. If the employer requires X as a part of her job and dh requires non-X, then she must make a choice. That could make employment difficult, if not impossible. But if dh is supportive of the work and willing to subordinate his "demands" of the wife to the employer's, then it would work out. But if the dh and the job requirements don't "mesh," she would be caught in the middle. Hypothetical example: if a dh requires dinner on the table by 6:00, but the employer requires the wife to work until 6:00, dh's needs will not be met. Or she must tell her employer, sorry, but I can't work till this project is finished. A dh who is willing to flex would make it work out easier.

Which is why a woman working must be an agreed issue between dh and dw.

For the record, my own opinions are very much like Marty's for my own family. but I do not presume to decide for others.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Women working... [message #706949 is a reply to message #706948 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elise  is currently offline Elise
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Lisa R. wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 08:40

For the record, my own opinions are very much like Marty's for my own family. but I do not presume to decide for others.


My opinions are simliar, too. I'm just not sure the divided loyalties argument applies here, so I was kind of playing devil's advocate.

I happen to teach a class at a local college once or twice a week much of the year. My dh is happy for me to do this, and it doesn't take much time away from home or children at all (our kids are turning 16 and 18 in the next few weeks, so they aren't needing Mom quite as much these days, except for taxi service!).

As I think about the submission thing more, I wouldn't take a job in the first place if it was going to put me in a position to be unsubmissive to dh. For example, if dh wanted dinner at 6 each night, I would teach a morning class but not an evening one, kwim?

Anyway, just something to ponder.


Blessings,
Elise


Wife to Dan
Retired homeschool mom to Emily and Bryan
Academic Resource Tutor at a local high school - basically Mom-at-the-kitchen-table for about 50 students
Re: Women working... [message #706998 is a reply to message #706948 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Lisa R. wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 08:40

Elise wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 09:16

MartySC wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 11:53

Also, if she is working out of the home for an employer, her loyalties are divided. Instead of only submitting to her husband (or father, if unmarried), she must also submit to her employer.



I've heard this before, and I must be missing something. If we use this reasoning for men, it would mean they cannot work for anyone else. Hear me out...

My dh is to submit to God, but since he works for someone else, he must also submit to his employer. Does that mean his loyalties are divided? Certainly his time must be divided, but dh can submit to God as well as his employer (unless employer asks him to something wrong - that's a separate issue). Similarly, if I work, I can submit to God, my dh, and my employer. Again, my time will be divided, but not my loyalties.

Even if a woman doesn't work outside the home, she has multiple entities to submit to - God, the government, and (if married) her husband. As long as submitting to God comes first, submitting to others does not divide her loyalties.

JMO




I've heard that as well. I don't know if it's a good argument unless there is conflict. If the employer requires X as a part of her job and dh requires non-X, then she must make a choice. That could make employment difficult, if not impossible. But if dh is supportive of the work and willing to subordinate his "demands" of the wife to the employer's, then it would work out. But if the dh and the job requirements don't "mesh," she would be caught in the middle. Hypothetical example: if a dh requires dinner on the table by 6:00, but the employer requires the wife to work until 6:00, dh's needs will not be met. Or she must tell her employer, sorry, but I can't work till this project is finished. A dh who is willing to flex would make it work out easier.

Which is why a woman working must be an agreed issue between dh and dw.

For the record, my own opinions are very much like Marty's for my own family. but I do not presume to decide for others.

I don't buy the divided loyalties idea either. We submit to our governmental authorities but it doesn't mean our loyalties are divided toward our husbands. We submit to our elders but that doesn't mean our loyalties are divided toward our husbands.

There are many authorities in our lives and they each have their place and sphere of authority. An employer has 1 sphere of authority but doesn't translate into, say, the home.

In the example Lisa gave, this would be something the husband and wife should agree on BEFORE she ever takes a job outside the home. If the husband says, "You must be home by 5:30 the absolute latest" and her job COULD require mandatory overtime, then that should NOT be a job she takes.

If they agree on the requirements of the job, then there is no divided loyalty. If they don't and she goes against her husband's express wishes in pursuing a particular job he says "No" to, then it is not the EMPLOYER who has stolen her loyalties, it is her own rebellious heart.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Women working... [message #707015 is a reply to message #706998 ] Fri, 08 July 2011 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Kate Megill wrote on Sat, 09 July 2011 07:35


I don't buy the divided loyalties idea either. We submit to our governmental authorities but it doesn't mean our loyalties are divided toward our husbands. We submit to our elders but that doesn't mean our loyalties are divided toward our husbands.

There are many authorities in our lives and they each have their place and sphere of authority. An employer has 1 sphere of authority but doesn't translate into, say, the home.... If they agree on the requirements of the job, then there is no divided loyalty.


This is something that Dean and I have talked a LOT about. The nature of medicine means that it can be hard to say "no" to taking on more work - but the nature of our family is that we want someone to be able to stay home with the children while the other one works. So we have had lots of discussions about how our work commitments fit together, so as not to short-change our family AND to allow our work practices to have integrity. What I mean is that, if I am doing "on-call" I *must* be able to drop everything and go in to work if called. Same for Dean. I know some people "gamble" that they won't be called on a particular day, but I think that is irresponsible. So we do not generally "overlap" our on-calls, as it would be tricky if we were both called in at the same time.

Like everything in life, it requires some planning and juggling - but in that sense work commitments are no different to church commitments, volunteer commitments or any other "yes" that we give to someone outside the home (or inside for that matter). Once I have said "yes" to something, I do my best to fulfill it - which means that I must be careful what I say "yes" to - but this dilemma is one we all face, it isn't unique to working in paid employment.

We agreed when we got married that his career would be the primary one, and mine would fit in around his and the family. There have been three years in the eleven we have been married when I haven't worked at all, and one when I supported DH while he was studying. For us, there is no problems with divided loyalties - I would fire my employer in a heartbeat if I needed to for the good of the family!

So for the record my outside commitments look like this at the moment:

Monday - music lessons with Evie and Zoe
Wednesday is my "full" work day and the girls go to MIL's house.
Friday is my "on call" day and the girls and I go to my mother's house so that I can leave if I get called. (Although usually I go in at some stage during the day anyway.)

Dean is *not* on call on Fridays. His on-call days are every second Monday, and every Wednesday and Thursday. We also arrange our weekends so that he works one weekend (like today) and I work a different weekend (not today).

But I suspect that families with more children routinely do more juggling than this to make everything fit! Wink


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Women working... [message #707627 is a reply to message #705991 ] Tue, 12 July 2011 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
Messages: 4572
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tennessee
Senior Member
I work full time at my husband's request. We have never been a high income family. We have no children at home. With the drop in the economy, it is necessary that we sock away every dime we can for retirement, and it is a great burden off dh that I provide my own health insurance. I'm relatively healthy, but under his plan it cost as much to insure me as it would cost to insure 10 children.

We live pretty small anyway, so it's not like there is a ton for me to do around here. At least the little bit I earn takes a burden off my husband and we have the perks of my job and a few extra shekels to help out.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 July 2011 21:37]


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: Women working... [message #707726 is a reply to message #705991 ] Wed, 13 July 2011 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
i voted #1 definitely.

I am most privy, however, to women being at home raising their own children during childrearing season. If husband and wife both prefer it, i also think it is lovely when a woman stays at home and nurtures the home and marriage even if she has no children at home.

I just say that im most privy to that. I am learning and accepting that many women seem to really need to be out of the house, even during childrearing years.

I am seeing that when there are no dc at home anymore, that i will want / need outside work.... if even for my own sense of personhood. I think that will actually keep a little spice in the marriage as well.


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: Women working... [message #707839 is a reply to message #705991 ] Thu, 14 July 2011 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rosemary-MI  is currently offline Rosemary-MI
Messages: 1313
Registered: April 2005
Location: Lower mid Michigan
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This is an interesting question! But wouldn't it seem that the circumstance in your life would lead you to a decision?

It would be very different if I was a widow or there was an illness or dh lost his job.

Rosemary


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Re: Women working... [message #707906 is a reply to message #705991 ] Thu, 14 July 2011 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
janetR  is currently offline janetR
Messages: 1937
Registered: March 2010
Location: TX
Senior Member
I definitely do not agree with the divided loyalties line of reasoning, and bottom line is that each woman must decide with her husband whether or not she will work and I respect that decision for their own family.
However, I do think that younger women with children should be encouraged to be keepers at home with them. The point at which she becomes an "older woman" and not needed at home so much should of course be left up to each family, but it can be discouraging to stay home, especially if you are still learning to manage on one income, etc. I think young moms need to be told that their jelly-brain will solidify one day, and need to be encouraged to remember that they are raising an eternal soul, not just a body to feed and clothe. They need to be taught, especially if not raised in a healthy home, that the relationships of mutual respect and love and open communication they are working so hard to build will richly bless them one day. Of even greater importance, the godly foundation she is laying is building the kingdom of Jesus. God may work this out in their lives in spite of her working, but I believe it is His plan to do it through her being with her children most of each day.


JanetR
daughter of the King since 1980
wife to dh since 1981
mom to five of the most incredible adults on the planet, one wonderful 18yo, and grandma to two bouncy grandsons
Re: Women working... [message #707907 is a reply to message #705991 ] Thu, 14 July 2011 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Penny_@35ThousandFeet  is currently offline Penny_@35ThousandFeet
Messages: 849
Registered: April 2005
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When I 'was' married and had small children at home, I stayed at home but I did 'work' at home. I did work for a woman in California who had a craft shop and I made pattern samples for her shop and did pretty good fiscally. I also sold stamps and postcards on ebay as well as books and paid for vacations, teeth, clothe etc and did pretty good at that. I was also a crossing guard..all of these I did around the kids and x's schedule.

X would waft between wanting me to work at home like I was doing and working outside the home. I was never sure what he really wanted me to as he could never make up his mind. When the kids were REALLY independant I got this job as a FA and during that first year, I made sure at every chance I got to check in with DH and fit my schedule the way it would work for him. As you all know my marriage crashed and burned and I am thankfull that I did have a job...although it pays in peanuts, somehow I manage ok.

My X had problems managing money. He made a lot but he spent a lot. My mother who could be pretty savy at times told me NOT to get a job outside the home as it would encourage him to spend more, but to do what I could inside the home. I know I know we are supposed to listen only to our DH's but my mother was really right and if my X would have been a better money manager I 'might' have gotton a part time job that would have worked with the family. But only if it worked and was family compatable. X drove us into the ground several times over and I am glad I didn't give him more of my cash to totally blow it to bits. Part of that might have been my fault becasue I didn't try to control the accounts but then he wasn't about to relinquish and I think I am rambling and getting off topic now...

Penny

Re: Women working... [message #708160 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sat, 16 July 2011 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackie O in DE  is currently offline Jackie O in DE
Messages: 329
Registered: April 2005
Location: DE
Senior Member

My thoughts have changed over the past 5yrs or so. I was a SAHM from the time my oldest was born 28yrs ago. I NEVER thought I would be a divorced single mom. From the time we were married we had said "divorce isn't an option we will work it out". Unfortunately, both parties have to keep that mindset for it to be possible.
I had never worked outside the home other than direct home sales (Tupperware, etc). When I found myself needing to get a job I had no recent work history to put on applications, 98% of which are online so you never talk to a person. It has taken me over 2yrs and I don't even know how many applications to finally get a job.

I also do not have a college education, I opted to get married instead. I have decided that my dd still at home will at least get an Associates degree in something so if she should ever find herself in the position of needing to support herself she will at least have a degree.My oldest 2 dds have Bachelor's degrees and dd#3 has almost 4yrs of management experience between Starbucks and Chick-fil-a and is one semester and 1 class shy of getting her Assoc and her RN.

I agree that in the ideal situation it is between the dw, dh, and God.


In Christ alone my hope is found,
He is my light my strength my all!
Re: Women working... [message #708165 is a reply to message #708160 ] Sat, 16 July 2011 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
Messages: 9593
Registered: April 2005
Location: Small Town New Hampshire
Senior Member
Here's where I am on this issue. I am working, out of respect for dh. He needed help, and I helped. My goal is to work from home, and I am setting that up. Working out of the house has been complicated for the past year or so. My loyalties do get divided, timewise, and the only way it works with one still homeschooling is that dh works out of the house and our college students are still home, so they help. Also, my Mom loves to fill in for the carpooling.

So I've been working out, but if I thought about it for more than three minutes, I could easily get convicted about being a worker at home, a la Proverbs and Titus.

On the boards here, over the years, often when husbands lose their jobs, the wives don't even talk about the possibility of the wives working, so that pattern is what caused me to think that there must be some people who thought that working out of the house or working in general was wrong or not God's will for their family (I also have seen the SAHM wave of the past few years, in reaction to so many women in our culture working full-time with full-time daycare) or maybe the fact that they still are homeschooling smaller children is part of it, too.

My church also will not employ a Christian teacher who is a mother until their children are in school, so that's interesting. I grew up in the middle of a family daycare and my unsaved mother was always trying to work herself out of a job, because she thought it was so important for moms to be home with their kids, if they could.

The results of the poll really surprised me. If we lived 50, 100, 200, 500, 1,000, 5,000 years ago and the technology existed, I suspect that the voting might be very different.

That makes me wonder what we are all basing our decisions on -- the Bible? circumstances? trends? what is currently available? Or are people understating their convictions for themselves, not wanting to offend others? Or is it based on, say, a sort of Libertarian approach to Christianity?

Anyway, I'm kinda all over the board on this one, but throwing that all in for grist for the mill. It probably doesn't make much sense, but I'm working my way through all the related topics.

Dh really really really wants me to work days at home this next year. My company has approved me to work at home, pending setup, not sure when that will be, but I don't know yet what shift, part-time vs full-time, or even when I may move home. Dh's idea is that he'd like me to be more available for suppers and sports games -- I miss many now.

To restate, I view my working right now as sort of like my approach to headcovering. Given what the Bible says about covering our heads, I would normally cover my head, but dh does not want a doily on mah head, so I don't cover. Given what the Bible says about working at home, I really deep-down think that I should be home, but because he wants me to work, I am happily working.

And I'm trusting that God knows my heart and will work it all together for good.

[Updated on: Sat, 16 July 2011 16:42]


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Women working... [message #708169 is a reply to message #708165 ] Sat, 16 July 2011 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MartySC  is currently offline MartySC
Messages: 532
Registered: August 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Senior Member
Sherry -

I believe that you are an excellent example to us of cheerful submission. Thank you for sharing with us. Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 16 July 2011 17:51]


Wife to my best friend, Mom to 18yog, 16yob, 14yob, 12yob, 11yob, 6yog, and five lost to miscarriage
Re: Women working... [message #708170 is a reply to message #708169 ] Sat, 16 July 2011 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
Messages: 9593
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Aw, that is sweet, Marty. Thank you. Smile


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Women working... [message #708173 is a reply to message #708165 ] Sat, 16 July 2011 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14917
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Quote:

I really deep-down think that I should be home, but because he wants me to work, I am happily working.




I think this is a great example of what submission means.

And I confess, I do understate my convictions somewhat...but it's "easy" for me to uphold my conviction in my own home because my dh shares them....if HIS views were different, like you, I'd line my actions up to submit to his views.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Women working... [message #719068 is a reply to message #705991 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChristyBin AL  is currently offline ChristyBin AL
Messages: 892
Registered: April 2005
Location: Alabama
Senior Member
Hmmm....I didn't read through all the comments but I am surprised at the results of the poll.

I do not think it's best for a wife to work outside of the home. And my opinions are based on Scripture.
Sherry, maybe if you had specified wife, the results may have been different??

ETA: But of course, submitting to your husband is best. Very Happy I am answering generally.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 September 2011 09:18]


ChristyBin AL
~Wife to HS sweetheart for 24 years
~2 precious sons, 20 & 19 yo

"...but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God." 1 Peter 3:4

Re: Women working... [message #719496 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
janetR  is currently offline janetR
Messages: 1937
Registered: March 2010
Location: TX
Senior Member
I think the fact that most women here think a woman should submit to her husband in this issue points strongly to this being something most view as personal conviction and influenced by situation, rather than a black-and-white issue. After all, if I put up a poll that asked, "Should you rob a bank if your husband tells you to?", I don't think I'd get many yes responses! Or, "If your children are starving and your husband won't provide, is it okay for mom to work?" would likely get an overwhelming "yes" response.

My opinion is that, biblically, there are issues that are non-negotiable. We should be absolutely faithful in those things and trust that God will provide for our needs when there is a conflict. I will never (by the grace of God in my trials) willingly deny Christ, no matter what. I would never willingly injure another human being. I will live faithfully with my husband and not turn to other men, etc.

But even though I have a personal conviction that it is God's general plan for women not to work outside the home while they have young children, I think he wants some young moms to do this because their needs and the needs of their children are real.

My system of hermeneutics (which I don't have time to explain right now, but I could later if someone wanted me to) supports this conclusion.


JanetR
daughter of the King since 1980
wife to dh since 1981
mom to five of the most incredible adults on the planet, one wonderful 18yo, and grandma to two bouncy grandsons
Re: Women working... [message #719497 is a reply to message #719496 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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I'm interested in the hermeneutics bunny trail, if you get time Wink


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Women working... [message #719498 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
Messages: 2015
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tepic Nayarit Mexico
Senior Member
I do not have time to read all the responses.

Ideally a woman sould stay home with her children and for millions of women in the world that would be a luxury. It would be a huge luxury!

In the country I live in many women have wept with me because they have to work or their families wont be able to eat. Their hearts desire is to be with their children but they can't because they have to work.
I know Mexico is not near as poor as many other places in the world so can see this problem must be world wide and is very sad.
Re: Women working... [message #719499 is a reply to message #707015 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie
Messages: 4138
Registered: April 2005
Senior Member
Elizabby wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 20:06


Monday - music lessons with Evie and Zoe

Completely off topic, but I was just shocked...how old is Zoe? I swear she was just born a wee bit ago. A few days ago you mentioned how old Evie was and I had the same reaction...it seems like it hasn't been that long ago that I remember your announcing her birth Wink Time is moving quickly.

{edited to fix quote}

[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2011 14:21]


Peace
Re: Women working... [message #719503 is a reply to message #705991 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
janet wrote: But even though I have a personal conviction that it is God's general plan for women not to work outside the home while they have young children, I think he wants some young moms to do this because their needs and the needs of their children are real.

I find this to be beautifully stated. I would add, as Christy suggested, that i find it a lovely things for wives to be at home as well. On the other hand, as a wife who will be soon facing empty nest, I am seeing some value in getting out into the work or volunteer force later on. I can see where it could be GOOD for the MARRIAGE or bad for the marriage.... id say it is something that needs to be prayerfully considered in each household...and revisted from time to time.

I also would comment on sthg that sherri illuded to... that if work for dh were scarce, that i think that i would do what needed to be done to help with the household finances. Not luxuries, but needs.


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: Women working... [message #719554 is a reply to message #719503 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dina  is currently offline Dina
Messages: 3272
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Senior Member
Dina wrote on Sat, 01 October 2011 13:43

janet wrote: But even though I have a personal conviction that it is God's general plan for women not to work outside the home while they have young children, I think he wants some young moms to do this because their needs and the needs of their children are real.

I find this to be beautifully stated. I would add, as Christy suggested, that i find it a lovely things for wives to be at home as well. On the other hand, as a wife who will be soon facing empty nest, I am seeing some value in getting out into the work or volunteer force later on. I can see where it could be GOOD for the MARRIAGE or bad for the marriage.... id say it is something that needs to be prayerfully considered in each household...and revisted from time to time.

I also would comment on sthg that sherri illuded to... that if work for dh were scarce, that i think that i would do what needed to be done to help with the household finances. Not luxuries, but needs.




i would add, ( gee... this gets complicated doesnt it??) that Im not sure where i lie re: women with some sort of call on their life for the greater good. I think of someone like Elizabby and perhaps one of my daughters, or women we now see in politics.... the pull towards motherhood vs their profession is one that will pull them both ways all of their lives, i believe. Grace, prayer support, understanding as they wrestle.... ( not sure that you wrestle elizabby... just using you as an example of someone potentially in this category)


Dina ....... HE has made me glad!
Re: Women working... [message #719569 is a reply to message #719499 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 05:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
Messages: 5476
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Senior Member
Jamie wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 04:20

Elizabby wrote on Fri, 08 July 2011 20:06


Monday - music lessons with Evie and Zoe

Completely off topic, but I was just shocked...how old is Zoe? I swear she was just born a wee bit ago. A few days ago you mentioned how old Evie was and I had the same reaction...it seems like it hasn't been that long ago that I remember your announcing her birth Wink Time is moving quickly.

{edited to fix quote}


Yes, time is flying past - for everyone else! Laughing

Evie will be four in November, Zoe will be two in December this year. The "music lessons" isn't really anything fancy - they play music and the kids jump around with shakers and scarves. They love it, and Zoe is right into it! The classes are aimed at pre-schoolers, so Evie is one of the oldest there, Zoe right in the middle. There is one mother who turns up with THREE pre-schoolers - and next year that will be me! Shocked


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Women working... [message #719570 is a reply to message #719554 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 05:46 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
Messages: 5476
Registered: April 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Senior Member
Dina wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 11:45

I think of someone like Elizabby and perhaps one of my daughters, or women we now see in politics.... the pull towards motherhood vs their profession is one that will pull them both ways all of their lives, i believe. Grace, prayer support, understanding as they wrestle.... ( not sure that you wrestle elizabby... just using you as an example of someone potentially in this category)


Well, yes. The pull is certainly there, but I would describe it more as a "juggle" than a struggle. Just moving things around to make them all fit. Also taking the long view - there will always be more work for a female paediatrician!

A while ago I was offered a *plum* job - I could walk to work, lovely private hospital with rich patients, lots of secretarial support, nice rooms, etc, etc. It was a real pang to turn it down (they hired one of my students!) and it was very hard to watch him moving "past" me and taking my place. But I was pregnant with Evie at the time, and taking the job would have meant committing to come back to work straight after she was born, and I wasn't prepared to do that.

Actually, my mother helped to talk me through it. She went through exactly the same thing about thirty years ago! She said: you CAN have it all, just not all at once! Very Happy I think it is true - this season of being home with young children is a temporary thing and there will come a time when they are older and more independent and I can do more outside the home. In the meantime, I am trying to settle into my home duties and enjoy this "season" of my life without longing for things are in the future but are not here yet.

I have never (will never I don't think) seen myself as being complete as a wife and mother. For one thing, that's not where my best skills lie, for better or worse. (My husband knew this about me before we married!) I have spent too long working on my other skills to give them away completely, so I imagine I will have this "dual role" for the rest of my life - but I'm hardly unique in that. Everyone has various roles and does various things which require some juggling, even if those things don't involve paid work.


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
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