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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage?
Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #542912] Fri, 12 June 2009 08:25 Go to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Registered: April 2005
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What is Marriage Poll[ 19 vote(s) ]
1.I believe a marriage is a vow before God 12 / 63%
2.I believe a marriage is a promise 0 / 0%
3.I believe a marriage is a decision 1 / 5%
4.I believe a marriage is a governmental arrangement 0 / 0%
5.I believe a marriage is a piece of paper 0 / 0%
6.Some combo 4 / 21%
7.Something else 2 / 11%

What do you believe marriages *are*? Here's a poll...


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #542915 is a reply to message #542912 ] Fri, 12 June 2009 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
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Marriage is a vow between two people (of opposite sex), before God and the community of believers.

Here's a can of worms: I don't believe the state should decide what a marriage is, because of the definition above. (Note that the government is not involved in the vow in any way, shape, or form!)

I do think the state has an interest in having stable households, and is free to recognize households which have adults in a stable committed relationship by offering certain rights & privileges. I just don't personally think that such a situation always qualifies as "marriage"...so, I don't think the state should concern itself with recognizing marriage as the only qualifying relationship for such rights & privileges...In fact, I really don't think the state should have any concern about who might be having sexual relationships with whom...or whether a stable household is founded on a relationship that includes sex.

IOW, such rights & privileges that now extend to married couples only should also be extended to households such as my elderly neighbors...brother & sister in their 80's & 90's who are committed to caring for one another until death. In no possible way is this a marriage, but it is a committed household, and it should be easy for them to care for each other insofar as the state can grant that.

Marriage should be the privilege of the Church; the state should recognize marriage and other stable relationships with life-long commitments for certain rights & privileges.

FWIW.


Lisa T.
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #542917 is a reply to message #542912 ] Fri, 12 June 2009 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tracy in Peru  is currently offline Tracy in Peru
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Part of our marriage vows were vows to God to honor Him through our marriage. We have always considered our marriage a three-way vow.


In Him--Tracy
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543139 is a reply to message #542912 ] Sat, 13 June 2009 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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I would say that marriage is all of the above:
- between two people it is a promise
- if either person is a believer, it is a vow before God
- I'm hoping it is a decision and not an accident! Nor something which either has been forced into!
- marriage also has significant social implications which are wider than the two people involved. Marriage impacts on their families, friends and in our society there are legal and governmental implications also which cannot be ignored.
- all this is recorded on legal documents, so yes, the "piece of paper" is important too.


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543293 is a reply to message #542912 ] Sat, 13 June 2009 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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1. I believe a marriage is a vow before God

Where is that found in the Bible? Marriage is certainly a covenant between husband and wife which implies a decision and a promise, but it isn't a vow to God. Actually I just noticed that you said "before God", not "to" God... but what does that mean? Everything we do is "before God". Nothing is hidden from His eyes!

2. I believe a marriage is a promise

There is an implication of a promise when two people decide to come together for the purpose of creating a family but the promise is to each other not to God, otherwise atheists can never be married. If you decide to promise something to God, fine, but this isn't what constitutes a marriage. Marriage is between two people not three, otherwise those who don't know God cannot really be considered married.

3. I believe a marriage is a decision

Yep, that is what it is.

4. I believe a marriage is a governmental arrangement

Nope. Government has a little to say about what they will recognize as a marriage, but this has nothing to do with what constitutes the biblical definition of a marriage.

5. I believe a marriage is a piece of paper

If it is, I hope it has a more durability than the green stuff in our pockets!

6. Some combo

Okay, I could have chosen this option since marriage has elements of both 2 & 3 but hey, I'm a black and white kind of guy and ultimately it is a decision that gives reality to the promise. How many times have you heard of people entering into engagements (a promise) and then not following through? Marriage is ultimately a decision between two people no matter how we embellish it.

7. Something else

What else could there be? One might say that some marriages are "arranged", but even here SOMEONE is making the decision!

Why don't we take on another controversial subject like polygamy? The bible is certainly clear on this one...

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. <grin>

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Sat, 13 June 2009 23:44]


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543341 is a reply to message #543293 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Just to complicate the issue: does it matter what you decide/promise/vow?

I was once at the marriage of people who promised "before God and these witnesses" to stay together "through sickness and..." as long as we both shall *love*...not "live".

It made me wonder whether they would be "breaking the decision/promise/vow" if one of them stopped loving and they got divorced.


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543375 is a reply to message #543341 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Sherry in NH wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 12:18

Just to complicate the issue: does it matter what you decide/promise/vow?

I was once at the marriage of people who promised "before God and these witnesses" to stay together "through sickness and..." as long as we both shall *love*...not "live".

It made me wonder whether they would be "breaking the decision/promise/vow" if one of them stopped loving and they got divorced.


People lie and break promises all of the time, does this ever make it right? Of course not. What difference does it make what you say, if it ends up being a lie anyway?

If a person is going to be held accountable for their words (and we all are) I'd much rather see them say something like "I'm going to be with you until I grow tired of you", than to make the statement "I'm always going to be by your side, no matter what", and then leave. Who is the one lying here? A person is better off not saying anything. This begs the question of why we feel it necessary to make such grand pronouncements in the first place... the bible doesn't require it.

Kinda reminds me of the Words of Jesus:

Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

It is a shame when two people who know not God are just as likely to stay together for a lifetime without benefit of a "church" wedding or even an "exchange of vows" as those who should know better.

Maybe, just maybe, we don't really know the answer to the question, which happens to be the subject of this thread: "What is a Marriage".

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543383 is a reply to message #543293 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
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william wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 22:27

1. I believe a marriage is a vow before God

Where is that found in the Bible? Marriage is certainly a covenant between husband and wife which implies a decision and a promise, but it isn't a vow to God. Actually I just noticed that you said "before God", not "to" God... but what does that mean? Everything we do is "before God". Nothing is hidden from His eyes!


Blessings,
William



Were Adam & Eve married? What does it say in Scripture about them? I think it shows that marriage was instituted by God (before baptism or any other sacrament or ordinance or whatever your denom calls it), and that it contains a vow to the spouse before God.

I'm not at all sure that atheists can marry in the Scriptural sense...just in a legal sense (which I would prefer not to call marriage, since it doesn't necessarily require a vow before God).


Lisa T.
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543396 is a reply to message #543383 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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If unbelievers aren't married then you've got to somehow account for the multitude of instances where the Bible shows that they are; husbands are called husbands, wives are called wives, whether they are unbelievers or not.

As to your other comment, sure, God instituted marriage, and He blesses marriages (what God has joined together...), but with the exception of Adam & Eve, God leaves the "decision" on who to marry in hands of men, and there is no mention anywhere of a "vow" being involved.

As I said before, if someone wants to include a vow, fine, but a marriage doesn't need a "vow" to be valid.

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Sun, 14 June 2009 16:48]


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543419 is a reply to message #543396 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Dear William,

But then what about all the scriptural imagery that has to do with Groom, the bride, the best man, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the divorce, etc.?

It seems that a lot of God's plan is grounded in that central idea.


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543425 is a reply to message #543419 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
Messages: 497
Registered: August 2007
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Sherry in NH wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 16:33

Dear William,

But then what about all the scriptural imagery that has to do with Groom, the bride, the best man, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the divorce, etc.?

It seems that a lot of God's plan is grounded in that central idea.


To what "central idea"? Are you referring, the vow?

I don't understand what you mean about the "imagery", can you be more specific?

All marriages have a Groom and a bride, the best man and reception are optional; The divorce? Is that like saying "death is a part of life"? <grin>

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Sun, 14 June 2009 21:21]


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543426 is a reply to message #543425 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Registered: August 2007
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The wine is also optional. <grin>


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543427 is a reply to message #543425 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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William -- no, I mean all the "imagery" in various places, all through Scripture, that has Jesus as the groom, the church as the bride, God divorcing Israel, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, etc.

It has echoes of a whole wedding ceremony, and implies to me that it's not *only* a human decision...if it's a reoccuring idea in the Bible.

<thinking this all through...hmmm...>


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from How Long: What is a Marriage? [message #543429 is a reply to message #543427 ] Sun, 14 June 2009 16:59 Go to previous message
william
Messages: 497
Registered: August 2007
Senior Member
Sherry in NH wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 16:49

William -- no, I mean all the "imagery" in various places, all through Scripture, that has Jesus as the groom, the church as the bride, God divorcing Israel, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, etc.

It has echoes of a whole wedding ceremony, and implies to me that it's not *only* a human decision...if it's a reoccuring idea in the Bible.

<thinking this all through...hmmm...>


You asked "What is Marriage?" Two people making the decision to commit themselves to each other is a marriage.

One may add a preacher into the mix, add friends, say some vows, drink a little wine, eat some cake, but these things (all optional) don't constitute the marriage. You can take all of the optional stuff away and still have a marriage... take the decision away and you've got nothing!

Blessings,
William

[Updated on: Sun, 14 June 2009 17:06]


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
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