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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids?
Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514364] Wed, 11 March 2009 15:33 Go to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Can we assume poll?[ 14 vote(s) ]
1.I believe that we should assume that God will save our children and raise them accordingly 2 / 14%
2.I believe that we should assume that God will save our children and raise them accordingly because I believe in the family covenant 1 / 7%
3.I don't believe we can assume that God will save our children, but we should raise them like He will 5 / 36%
4.I don't believe we can assume that God will save our children 2 / 14%
5.Some combo 0 / 0%
6.Something else 4 / 29%

It was said in another thread:

>Why WOULDN'T we assume God will save our dc and raise them accordingly?<

Just to explore this a little more:

So, whether I have a limited view (He died only for some) or an unlimited/not universalist view (He died for everyone, but only some will come to know Him)...can I assume God will save my dear children?

And what do you base your belief on?

Here's a poll:

[Updated on: Wed, 11 March 2009 15:34]


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514393 is a reply to message #514364 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Sherry, this poll is only really answerable in the "once saved always saved" context.

I would say "I believe my daughter (15mths) is part of God's kingdom already and a baptized believer, and I will raise her accordingly, but of course she may choose to reject God of her own accord later on in life."


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514400 is a reply to message #514393 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Ahhh...exposing my assumptions Wink

Thanks for throwing that in, elizabby...I'll expect some Others...


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514412 is a reply to message #514364 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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I am hoping that as a result of raising our children in a christian home, that the natural progression will be that they respond to the call to salvation. Three of our kids have already made a confession of faith, and I pray the other three will as well.


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514421 is a reply to message #514412 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polly  is currently offline Polly
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Okay, I said that.

I don't believe that infant baptism saves my child.

I do believe in the covenants made throughout scripture between God and His people and their children and their children's children. I see in scripture that the children of God's people who went astray and turned from God were the *exception*, not the rule.

I believe that it is consistent through scripture that I can assume....or hope...that God will draw my children to Himself, through the Word, both in my home and in our church. I find peace in that. Peace. Not a lazy lack of attending to teaching and training my dc in the Word.

I do not share the view of the modern church that *assumes* that *all* children will rebel and go their own way....that is more what I was speaking to.

The Word is powerful. It is able to save. I assume it will. However, it is up to God...

Our hope, our salvation is in Christ alone.

I didn't vote. This is my poor attempt at voicing what I believe.


Polly
wishing for snow in N MS



Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514425 is a reply to message #514421 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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I believe very similarly to Polly. I voted something else because I don't like the word "assume." I don't "assume" God will save my children, but like Polly, I believe it is consistent with Scripture to see God saving and using families/generations. So seeing that, I prayerfully raise my children as if they will be saved and trust God with rest.


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514432 is a reply to message #514425 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polly  is currently offline Polly
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It is unfortunate I chose the word *assume* in my original post. Smile

I just wanted to add, if anything, this gives great purpose to the task of obeying God when it comes to training my children and causing them to walk in His ways....whether they have made a profession of faith in Christ...or not.

I cannot sit back and say that maybe it is God's *will* for my dc to fall into grave sin in order to see their need for a Savior. It is my job to see to it they DON'T as long as they are under my roof.

And....nothing I have said is referring to anything anyone else may have said here. I honestly have not followed the other threads/boards very closely at all. (The above statement was actually made in a parenting class at a church we attended once.)


Polly
wishing for snow in N MS



Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514492 is a reply to message #514425 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tamara Eaton
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Carrie L wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 16:20

I believe very similarly to Polly. I voted something else because I don't like the word "assume." I don't "assume" God will save my children, but like Polly, I believe it is consistent with Scripture to see God saving and using families/generations. So seeing that, I prayerfully raise my children as if they will be saved and trust God with rest.


Amen, I agree. (Although I didn't vote since Sherry's polls are generally too challenging for me. Laughing)

I would change "assume" to "trust". Smile


Blessings,
Tamara

"There is always enough time to do the will of God. Don't Waste Your Life!"
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514517 is a reply to message #514393 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 15:29

Sherry, this poll is only really answerable in the "once saved always saved" context.

I would say "I believe my daughter (15mths) is part of God's kingdom already and a baptized believer, and I will raise her accordingly, but of course she may choose to reject God of her own accord later on in life."


And Elizabby, I don't think this poll has to do with 'once saved, always saved'. It has to do with what constitutes salvation.

I do not believe one is saved because of baptism. If you believe in infant baptism, then that baptism makes an infant a part of the VISIBLE CHURCH, and (I believe) able to receive the benefits of that. However, it does nothing to declare her "belief" since she doesn't believe anything about God, one way or the other.

At a point of conversion, that is when someone becomes a part of the INVISIBLE CHURCH and now are a part of the Body of Christ and inherit all the blessings of the adoption into the family of God.

However, to Sherry, I don't think I can ever assume anything about whether or not my children will come to Christ. I hope they do and I will raise them as if they will, but the ultimate choice is theirs. I believe the old expression: God doesn't have grandchildren. No one is physically born into the family of God...you must be born again in order for that to happen.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514541 is a reply to message #514517 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Kate Megill wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 11:20

elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 15:29

Sherry, this poll is only really answerable in the "once saved always saved" context.

I would say "I believe my daughter (15mths) is part of God's kingdom already and a baptized believer, and I will raise her accordingly, but of course she may choose to reject God of her own accord later on in life."


And Elizabby, I don't think this poll has to do with 'once saved, always saved'. It has to do with what constitutes salvation.

I do not believe one is saved because of baptism. If you believe in infant baptism, then that baptism makes an infant a part of the VISIBLE CHURCH, and (I believe) able to receive the benefits of that. However, it does nothing to declare her "belief" since she doesn't believe anything about God, one way or the other.


Sorry yes, that's what I meant. It has to do with your definition of "salvation" and who is saved and who can be saved. This is linked to the issue of who can be baptized. I do not believe my daughter is saved *because* she is baptized. I baptized her to make her part of the visible church because I believe she is ALREADY part of the invisible church. This is obviously different from the "believer's baptism" only belief, which tends to go with the "once saved always saved" belief which also tends to go with the attitude that "infants are necessarily unsaved or we can't be sure about their salvation" which also goes with the "age of accountability" issue. I shouldn't have conflated them together, but since none of them apply to me I tend to assume that they go as a "group" of self-consistent beliefs, like this:

Person A is a baptized believer who was baptized after the age of accountability and who made an adult decision to believe. Person A is therefore saved, and part of the elect and held in God's hand never to be taken out of it. Person A would *not* be saved if her baptism was "invalid" ie if she was too young or not a believer. If she later "fell away" there would be some who would say that she was never saved in the first place and that her baptism therefore didn't mean anything.

In my experience, all these beliefs tend to run together. This is all a total tangent from the original poll, but I suppose I would have selected an option that read something more like:

I believe my daughter is already saved, and I will raise her accordingly (including baptizing her in recognition of this fact) with the caveat that she still needs to continue to choose to be saved for herself and that she may in the future choose to reject the salvation that she currently has.

But that seemed a bit long! Laughing


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514558 is a reply to message #514541 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris, GA  is currently offline Chris, GA
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elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:57

I believe my daughter is already saved, and I will raise her accordingly (including baptizing her in recognition of this fact) with the caveat that she still needs to continue to choose to be saved for herself and that she may in the future choose to reject the salvation that she currently has.

But that seemed a bit long! Laughing




So elizabby, you believe *all* children are born "saved"? Or just children of believers? Could you elaborate?


Chris, GA
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514559 is a reply to message #514558 ] Wed, 11 March 2009 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Chris, GA wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 12:22

elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:57

I believe my daughter is already saved, and I will raise her accordingly (including baptizing her in recognition of this fact) with the caveat that she still needs to continue to choose to be saved for herself and that she may in the future choose to reject the salvation that she currently has.

But that seemed a bit long! Laughing




So elizabby, you believe *all* children are born "saved"? Or just children of believers? Could you elaborate?


Just the children of at least one believing parent:

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514629 is a reply to message #514559 ] Thu, 12 March 2009 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:25


1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.



Wow. I hate to admit I've never given this verse a lot of thought. Interesting interpretation.


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514675 is a reply to message #514364 ] Thu, 12 March 2009 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Polly  is currently offline Polly
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If I may share, I do not believe that verse is applying to holiness that merits eternal salvation. I believe that salvation is through FAITH in Christ alone. Even with the OT saints, I believe, as put forth in Hebrews, that their salvation was not of works and keeping the laws but of faith. I believe this is consistent through all of scripture and has never changed.

I think that the passover is a good picture of this verse. During the passover, the head of the house was to sacrifice a lamb and spread the blood over the doorway. He was to gather all his household in with him. This would have included those who were not *believers*.....and yet they were saved from the angel of death that night because of the belief and obedience of the head of the household.

Now, I do not believe that this extended to eternal salvation and that each of those Jews who were saved that night are with Christ for eternity. They would have *each* had to have their own faith credited to them for eternal salvation.

Just my simple thoughts......


Polly
wishing for snow in N MS



Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514685 is a reply to message #514629 ] Thu, 12 March 2009 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Janice T. wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 23:14

elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:25


1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.



Wow. I hate to admit I've never given this verse a lot of thought. Interesting interpretation.



I have and do not think it means that.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #514806 is a reply to message #514685 ] Thu, 12 March 2009 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Kate Megill wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 08:06

Janice T. wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 23:14

elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:25


1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.



Wow. I hate to admit I've never given this verse a lot of thought. Interesting interpretation.



I have and do not think it means that.


Agree Kate but I would like to study it a bit more. It's interesting!
Elizabby, are there other verses that would support your take on this one?


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #515039 is a reply to message #514806 ] Fri, 13 March 2009 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Janice T. wrote on Fri, 13 March 2009 05:49

Kate Megill wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 08:06

Janice T. wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 23:14

elizabby wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 20:25


1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.



Wow. I hate to admit I've never given this verse a lot of thought. Interesting interpretation.



I have and do not think it means that.


Agree Kate but I would like to study it a bit more. It's interesting!
Elizabby, are there other verses that would support your take on this one?



Haven't really got time to go into it in detail, but there are other verses which talk about "whole households" being baptized at the same time. IMO, this would include children - and this being in the days before contraception it seems unlikely that there would be NO children in a whole extended family. Jesus also talked about not hindering little children coming, and that faith "like a child" is a desirable thing.

Also, if we take a more "covenantal" view, the Israelites circumsized their boys at 8 days of age. If baptism replace circumcision as the sign of those included in the family of God, then we should be baptizing our children at 8 days of age!

Sorry, but I'm going away on holidays for a week and I won't be around much to follow this up. If it is still a live issue when I get back I'll speak to it more.

[Updated on: Fri, 13 March 2009 04:09]


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #515256 is a reply to message #515039 ] Fri, 13 March 2009 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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Thanks Elizabby. These are verses that I've not given a lot of thought to because I haven't known what to do with them. I'd like to study it more.


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #515957 is a reply to message #514364 ] Sun, 15 March 2009 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
99loons  is currently offline 99loons
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I believe God is the choser but I will raise my children in His ways and assume He will save them. Whether they are saved are not is entirely up to Him.

I do not believe all children in every Christian family will be saved just as not all Children in every Hebrew family were part of Israel.

Romans 9
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.


I believe God has spiritual children, children of promise, the elect.... I do not believe He has any grandchildren and that just because I am saved my children will be.


I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.
~from Ecclesiastes 3:14~
Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #516012 is a reply to message #514364 ] Sun, 15 March 2009 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
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We can always assume God is going to act consistently according to his character and word.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: Bunny Trail from Limited/Unlimited: Can we assume God will save our kids? [message #516041 is a reply to message #514364 ] Mon, 16 March 2009 01:00 Go to previous message
Lucille  is currently offline Lucille
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I don't assume anything, I train my child & pray that he will repent & be saved by grace thru faith.

I agree w/Charity et al, somehow both lines of thought are true. Somehow we have free will & God choses us.


Lucille
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