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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Another controversial poll
Another controversial poll [message #393826] Thu, 03 April 2008 15:49 Go to next message
Rose  is currently offline Rose
Messages: 453
Registered: April 2007
Location: Prince George, BC
Senior Member

Similar poll[ 24 vote(s) ]
1.hold onto my purse so that they didn't take that as well. 23 / 96%
2.leave my purse available to be snatched as well. 1 / 4%

If you were sitting on the bus and someone grabbed your coat from next to you would you...


Rose - Official Bean Queen

wife of Joel
mom to Faith(5.5) and Paul(5)

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." - Jesus
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393837 is a reply to message #393826 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sue C  is currently offline Sue C
Messages: 2616
Registered: April 2005
Location: midwest
Senior Member
Maybe this is a good place to bring this up.

In one of Mary Jo's posts, she said WHAT SHE HAS DONE (past). It seems like a lot of our conversation is around WHAT WE WOULD DO (future).

I would really enjoy hearing about what God has led you to do in certain situations, not what you think you might do.

In the end, I hope that I would be in tune with the Spirit and do what He tells me to do at that moment.

Sue
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393844 is a reply to message #393837 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michele (Queen of Cheap)  is currently offline Michele (Queen of Cheap)
Messages: 5816
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member
I voted #1 and I would also add that if someone grabbed my coat I would grab it right back.


Michele, The Organic Queen of Cheap!
(aka Shelly the Swamp Frog)

Happily posting on CHF since 1995


Re: Another controversial poll [message #393868 is a reply to message #393826 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
Messages: 2015
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tepic Nayarit Mexico
Senior Member
I voted one too but I think there is a basic misunderstanding of nonresistance as I understand it anyway.

Everything does not have to be so black and white and trying to make it that way limits the possibility of seeing another side or even growing further in the Lord in my opinion.

Some of the questions asked make me think that people are either going to use VIOLENCE or sit there like a drooling dope and say go ahead and stab me.

Can't people try to stretch a little and understand that there are other intelligent ways to resist and ward off violence. I have done it on several occasions to be honest out of instinct and not thinking through a theological position.

Looking back I realize that God protected me in the way I did things and it works

The whole purse question is interesting. I lived in Los Angeles in a very rough neighborhood for many years.

Michele, in gang areas if you decide to fight back in the moment you are being assaulted, you're going to be dead! That is how it is there. In certain situations I would give them my purse and anything they asked because I value my life more than my purse or my feisty attitude.

Then I moved to a very violent part of Mazatlan where there is a lot of drug trafficking and many people we ministered to were killed. For some reason there I did speak up only when the Lord lead and the bad guys went away.

We can say all we want and pretend we can defend ourselves with a gun or Karate or whatever. The truth is most of us are physically weak women and making a statement by hanging onto to our purse or coat or ring may be the last thing we ever do.


[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2008 18:22]

Re: Another controversial poll [message #393874 is a reply to message #393826 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diana P.  is currently offline Diana P.
Messages: 4045
Registered: April 2005
Location: New England
Senior Member
No purse or any amount of money is worth my life. Attacking me or my children is one thing; if they want my purse that badly, they can have it. My purse is replaceable; my life is not.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2008 18:26]


Grace & Peace,
Diana

"Do your best, then rest"

Re: Another controversial poll [message #393876 is a reply to message #393868 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14920
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Quote:

Michele in gang areas if you decide to fight back in the moment your being assaulted, you're going to be dead!

Of course, being a deputy sheriff for years, Michele has more experience with that sort of thing than most of us, I'd be willing to bet! Very Happy

Quote:

Can't people try to stretch a little and understand that there are other intelligent ways to resist and ward off violence.


I absolutely agree with this...but so many of us are trying to figure out exactly what the "other side" is saying (I use quotes, because if my position is actually unscriptural, I want to change it; I'm just (a) not quite certain about how a variety of scriptures fit together, and (b) not quite certain what other people are saying.

In some of the thread, some people have asserted that ANY show of force, or threat of force in any way, violates the "turn the other cheek" passage--even walking away from it. The idea that has sometimes been expressed has been literally to stand there and literally be hit again. That is the literal interpretation of the initial passage. Some have implied that warding off the violence is in fact violence,and not allowed. Most of those positions have been softened through the course of the conversations, but I think some of us have wondered if others have been literally saying,
Quote:

sit there like a drooling dope and say go ahead and stab me.
The idea, of course, that we'd really be praying and trusting in the Lord for protection rather than actually drooling, of course. Smile Going to the extreme in conversation sometimes helps folks on both sides to figure out exactly what the other person is saying.

At this point, I totally agree that there are TONS of ways to avoid a violent situation without resorting to violence ourselves!

[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2008 19:01]


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393891 is a reply to message #393876 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
Messages: 497
Registered: August 2007
Senior Member
Quote:

I absolutely agree with this...but so many of us are trying to figure out exactly what the "other side" is saying (I use quotes, because if my position is actually unscriptural, I want to change it; I'm just (a) not quite certain about how a variety of scriptures fit together, and (b) not quite certain what other people are saying.

In some of the thread, some people have asserted that ANY show of force, or threat of force in any way, violates the "turn the other cheek" passage--even walking away from it. The idea that has sometimes been expressed has been literally to stand there and literally be hit again. That is the literal interpretation of the initial passage. Some have implied that warding off the violence is in fact violence,and not allowed. Most of those positions have been softened through the course of the conversations, but I think some of us have wondered if others have been literally saying,


Hi Lisa,

I plan to write more on this subject but I would like to say that it is my understanding that none of these issues are things that we would expect to carry out literally. Each of the controversial things that Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount are to my mind, designed to reveal our hearts. If we cannot, in the comfort of our living rooms, make deliberate choices to both understand and follow in His steps, it is unlikely we will make the right choices in the heat of the battle.

Take the example He gives concerning cutting off our hands. All of us agree that we are not called to cut off our hands... however, His meaning seems to be that you should be willing to cut off your hand *IF* your hand was the actual source of your sin problem. We know that it is a matter of the heart, and since it is a matter of the heart in the other examples as well, we should have a heart that does not seek revenge, retaliation, or any evil, toward those who despitefully use us. We do this *because* we are to love our enemies, even as He loves them.

It isn't likely that we will act appropriately, unless we actually have a heart of love toward our enemies. This is why I think the issue of taking Him seriously on these points is so important. If we don't *now* have the right motivation in our hearts, then we have time to allow Jesus to change our hearts. If we don't have a heart to follow His teaching because we misinterpret His meaning, then we are no better than the Pharisees. A modern-day version of the Pharisee might indeed follow the letter of His teaching, but still be as far off the mark as their NT counterparts.

Turning the other cheek doesn't mean anything if it is not motivated by a heart of love—which, as I understand it, is His point.

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393907 is a reply to message #393891 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michele (Queen of Cheap)  is currently offline Michele (Queen of Cheap)
Messages: 5816
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member
Sometimes there are things worth fighting for. Our intercity area (Augusta, GA for example) is being taken over by thugs. They scare and intimidate people. People cower. When that happens they take more and more and get stronger and stronger. Pretty soon you will not be able to walk anywhere in Augusta without fear of being hurt. Sometimes people need to stand up for what is right.


Michele, The Organic Queen of Cheap!
(aka Shelly the Swamp Frog)

Happily posting on CHF since 1995


Re: Another controversial poll [message #393911 is a reply to message #393826 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
Messages: 2015
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tepic Nayarit Mexico
Senior Member
I think you said it so simply there William that, that is enough of an explanation for me!

There is a part of me that battles with black and white thinking and a big part of me that always needs a simple explanation!
I'm part abstract and part black and white which makes me a pain in the neck to many. Laughing

I think what you said above sums up what I think. I also think that we as Christians have been educated in wrong thinking on this subject. We are rights and justice oriented. I know neither one of those things are wrong but they can be out of balance.



Re: Another controversial poll [message #393918 is a reply to message #393891 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
Messages: 14920
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member

Quote:

Take the example He gives concerning cutting off our hands. All of us agree that we are not called to cut off our hands... however, His meaning seems to be that you should be willing to cut off your hand *IF* your hand was the actual source of your sin problem. We know that it is a matter of the heart, and since it is a matter of the heart in the other examples as well, we should have a heart that does not seek revenge, retaliation, or any evil, toward those who despitefully use us. We do this *because* we are to love our enemies, even as He loves them.

It isn't likely that we will act appropriately, unless we actually have a heart of love toward our enemies. This is why I think the issue of taking Him seriously on these points is so important. If we don't *now* have the right motivation in our hearts, then we have time to allow Jesus to change our hearts. If we don't have a heart to follow His teaching because we misinterpret His meaning, then we are no better than the Pharisees. A modern-day version of the Pharisee might indeed follow the letter of His teaching, but still be as far off the mark as their NT counterparts.

Turning the other cheek doesn't mean anything if it is not motivated by a heart of love—which, as I understand it, is His point.


That, I can totally get behind! Apparently some of the specific outworkings vary from person to person.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393920 is a reply to message #393826 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
Messages: 2015
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tepic Nayarit Mexico
Senior Member
Lisa,

My reference to being dead by resisting was not aimed at Michele as a Deputy Sheriff but aimed at the idea of " I would grab it right back"

Not good advice for the average women no matter how tough she may think she is.

I'm sure as a Sheriff Michele has great advice for us all though.
Re: Another controversial poll [message #393945 is a reply to message #393907 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vicki in AZ  is currently offline Vicki in AZ
Messages: 551
Registered: April 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Senior Member

Michele (Queen of Cheap) wrote on Thu, 03 April 2008 17:56

Sometimes there are things worth fighting for. Our intercity area (Augusta, GA for example) is being taken over by thugs. They scare and intimidate people. People cower. When that happens they take more and more and get stronger and stronger. Pretty soon you will not be able to walk anywhere in Augusta without fear of being hurt. Sometimes people need to stand up for what is right.


You make a very good point Michele. I agree. You bring to mind the quote I often hear about evil winning when good men do nothing. I wish I had the time and concentration to keep up with these threads as things are sounding interesting. We should be moving into the new house this weekend..... I HOPE!


Always in Him,
Vicki
Re: Another controversial poll [message #394101 is a reply to message #393945 ] Fri, 04 April 2008 13:58 Go to previous message
Michele (Queen of Cheap)  is currently offline Michele (Queen of Cheap)
Messages: 5816
Registered: April 2005
Location: Georgia
Senior Member
Most bullies will back down when challenged. Of course not all do so if you decide to "fight" back you might really have to fight back Shocked

Just yesterday an elderly man walked out of the Wachovia bank in Augusta and was shot in the neck by a thug who then took the man's money (he had just cashed his retirement check). The reason there is so much of this going on is that the thugs continually get away with it. People do not stand up for their individual rights and the court system doesn't protect our collective rights as a society.


Michele, The Organic Queen of Cheap!
(aka Shelly the Swamp Frog)

Happily posting on CHF since 1995


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