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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Poll for William
Poll for William [message #392041] Sat, 29 March 2008 05:08 Go to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Registered: April 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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What do you think you would do in this case?[ 48 vote(s) ]
1.If someone came up and punched me in the face, I would offer him the chance to do it again on the other side. 5 / 10%
2.If someone came up and punched me in the face, I would do something else. 43 / 90%

This poll is posted as William asked for it - two options only, no "other" choices, just yes or no. The poll is anonymous, so you can say what you think you would really do - no pressure.


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392049 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Denise Kelley  is currently offline Denise Kelley
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Elizabby,

I realize that this is a "yes" or "no" question, but I do want to point out that there is a difference between someone just punching me in the face - and some one punching me in the face because I'm taking a stand for Christ. Smile Since there was no mention of the Lord Jesus Christ in your question, I voted "yes" I would do something else.


~Denna

Wife to sweetheart - 25 years. Mom to Tom (20), Lee (23), and mil to Lee's lovely wife.
CHF member - a long time! :)

Denise Kelley
SWR Endorsed Trainer
IEW Accomplished Instructor
Re: Poll for William [message #392098 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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I don't mind answering "in the light" as I'm not ashamed of my position. Smile However, to answer as exactly as the poll is presented I would have to know the more. Like, what provoked the attack? Is this a crazed psyco or a spiritually hurt individual? Is this my 2 year old or an adult stranger? Am I Christ, facing my persecutors, or am I a little old lady being mugged?

My overall position would to always leave and not fight back. I would only stay and turn my cheek if it were a situation in which Christ would be glorified. Obviously I don't believe that is always the case.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2008 12:32]


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Poll for William [message #392103 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PamE
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I have to vote "something else" too. With the information given, I would at the very least protect myself, shield my face, etc. Probably at most I would defend myself, attempting to discourage or disable my opponent, not in retaliation or anger, or to prolong the fight, but to the point where the attack stopped. Hm. Not an easy "yes or no" question! Laughing

[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2008 12:24]


I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us. ~Phil 3:13-14~
Re: Poll for William [message #392161 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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Well, I said I would do something else MOST LIKELY BECAUSE I'd be on the ground bleeding and possibly unconscious!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Poll for William [message #392178 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Char in mid-south  is currently offline Char in mid-south
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Laughing Kate!!! You cracker me up!! Laughing

Ummmmmmmmm, I should be VERY ashamed to say this but I know me all too well. I've taken alot of abuse in my life and I must say: I would most likely punch my hardest right back at the person in their very own face! Shocked Confused Embarassed I just can't tolerate abusive people in the world. Afterall, I wasn't created to be a punching bag or a doormat, ya know? Confused

Then run for the hills if they are bigger than me. Wink Laughing


Your Sista-Chick in Christ and Friend


Re: Poll for William [message #392184 is a reply to message #392178 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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I didn't vote because it would really depend upon the situation. If someone were punching me to get to my family, I would probably fight back. If someone were to hit me out of anger for whatever reason, I might offer the other cheek. If someone were trying to rob me of something, I might just step aside and let them take it.


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: Poll for William [message #392317 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Thanks Elizabby,

You said I'd be surprised... I am! (edited this to say I am, instead of "I'm not")

Jesus should have qualified Himself before making such a radical statement.

One of the reasons the sermon on the mount was given, was to show that the OT laws were much more than a simple dos and don'ts list. Jesus taught that unless ones heart had the right motivation, the outward action of keeping the law, was a moot point.

Blessings to all,
William

[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2008 23:47]


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392319 is a reply to message #392317 ] Sat, 29 March 2008 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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By the way, I'm pretty sure I voted, I didn't use the view results button first, and when I went to the view results, there was only 1 there. I thought that maybe my vote didn't register and thought about doing it again, but I didn't want to skew the poll results (in my favor<grin>)in case I was alone, so I didn't.

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392322 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
Messages: 497
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I've got my next one ready... again, two questions...

If a purse snatcher grabs your purse and runs, do you 1)Yell for him to come back and take your necklace, or 2) let him go?


hmmmm, on second thought scratch that. I'm getting out of the polling business!

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392327 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
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I am very convicted by your stand William and Elizabby!

I am convicted because of the faith in God it displays. I know neither one of you plan on being a punching bag for anybody and both of you are extremely outspoken with strong opinions so I know neither one of you are just weak people with no back bone.
Both of you are quite the opposite so your stand is very interesting and convicting.

I really love these discussions because it really makes me think and ponder in a deeper way.

I wish I could say I would just turn the other cheek but I feel like my flesh would get the better of me.

The funny thing is that I really have been in several violent situations one that included a parent and I never had to get violent myself. God always gave me another strategy to handle these occasional violent situations and I did.


Re: Poll for William [message #392329 is a reply to message #392327 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Thanks for the kind words, Mary Jo.

I went outside for a bit to give it some more thought, thinking that somehow I might have missed something here. I tried to think of other examples or some other way that it would be possible to actually do what Jesus said. Maybe if it were worded like this a different answer might be forthcoming:

If someone punched you in the face, and the Lord Jesus spoke in your ear saying "turn the other cheek." Would you?

If someone, using the wonderful government (that God ordained,) sued you for a thousand dollars, would you offer the rest of your bank account to him?

While in court being sued (in the above example,) would you decline to swear an oath?

If spouses never committed fornication, would Christians never divorce?

If you looked with lust upon another, are you guilty of adultery?

If your eye was the root of your sin problem and you could solve the problem by plucking it out, would you? I'm fully aware that the hand or the eye isn't the sin problem, but to me, Jesus is saying that we should be willing to do anything to maintain a right relationship to Him. All of the above answers should be based upon whether or not our heart is willing to do what the Lord requires. Anything less, makes us no better than the heathen: (Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?)

If you were forced to work without pay for someone, would you offer them a few more hours upon your release?

If you had an enemy, would you join the army, so that you could teach them how to love?

I'm just thinking out loud, and not asking you to answer these things. And I definitely don't want to hear any more qualified answers. I'm seriously wondering why Jesus even said these things. There doesn't seem to be any real-world examples where these things would apply.

Just thought of one more thing... since we Gentiles are called children of Abraham--by faith, I wonder what would have happened if he (Abraham) had refused to sacrifice Isaac, qualifying his refusal by saying "God, you can't seriously want me to do such a thing!"

Blessings,
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392337 is a reply to message #392319 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 04:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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william wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 13:44

By the way, I'm pretty sure I voted, I didn't use the view results button first, and when I went to the view results, there was only 1 there. I thought that maybe my vote didn't register and thought about doing it again, but I didn't want to skew the poll results (in my favor<grin>)in case I was alone, so I didn't.



No, I think this is right. I wrote the poll, but I didn't want to vote first and skew the results either, and I've only just come back to it (remember I'm offset from the rest of you time-wise).

I'll go vote now, so then there will be two of us! Wink


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392338 is a reply to message #392327 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Mary Jo wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 14:27

The funny thing is that I really have been in several violent situations one that included a parent and I never had to get violent myself. God always gave me another strategy to handle these occasional violent situations and I did.


Actually, this is true for me too! As I mentioned in the other thread, after working in the ER for ten years or so, you see a lot of violence, and get involved in some of it. I can't offhand think of any time I had to use violence, though I often thought I might be about to receive some! (One of my bosses was threatened with a shotgun once - very rare in Australia, where guns are hard to get.)


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392339 is a reply to message #392329 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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william wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 15:51

If someone punched you in the face, and the Lord Jesus spoke in your ear saying "turn the other cheek." Would you?


This is an interesting scenario, and I think would generate different questions. However, my response would be rather like a certain parable: if you have the words of Jesus why didn't you listen to them?

Quote:

While in court being sued (in the above example,) would you decline to swear an oath?


Can't you do that in the States? We have a routine provision for this, though I've never been in court myself.

Quote:

I wonder what would have happened if he (Abraham) had refused to sacrifice Isaac, qualifying his refusal by saying "God, you can't seriously want me to do such a thing!"


And yet, a lot of argument I hear from Christians about not wanting to follow the (IMO clear) commands of Jesus amounts to that. "God wouldn't want me to stay in an unhappy marriage" or "God wouldn't want me to deny myself love" or "God wouldn't want me to have a child I don't want" or "God wouldn't want me to get a slap on the cheek and to just take it!" Wink


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392349 is a reply to message #392339 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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Ya know, William, I wasn't trying to qualify the question or my answer. I was just being honest. I have *never* thought of these verses in this light before. I've never heard anyone teach them like this. I'm with Mary Jo - it's surely something to think about.


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: Poll for William [message #392369 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leigh  is currently offline Leigh
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I voted something else, but I don't think it would be to retaliate.


Leigh
Tennessee

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

~~Benjamin Franklin

Re: Poll for William [message #392385 is a reply to message #392329 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sue C  is currently offline Sue C
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Yes, William! (Meaning, how are we to live out Jesus' commands?!)

How should Christians live?!!

I usually ask my dh what to do (hypothetically) because he can cut right to the heart of issues better than me.

Sue
Re: Poll for William [message #392386 is a reply to message #392349 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Carrie L wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 08:35

Ya know, William, I wasn't trying to qualify the question or my answer. I was just being honest. I have *never* thought of these verses in this light before. I've never heard anyone teach them like this. I'm with Mary Jo - it's surely something to think about.


I wasn't meaning to single you out Carrie. It's really hard to think of a way to express a question that wouldn't lead to a ton of qualified answers. I can't imagine that the disciples had that much trouble understanding His meaning though. We do know that in moving from theory to practice, Jesus had to correct them on a couple of occasions, so perhaps they struggled too.

From my reading in Church history, the practice of nonresistance was universally held until mid-second century.

But the watershed event was the conversion of Constantine. This event seems to be where Christians re-examined their loyalty to the practice of nonresistance. The experience of having "one of them" as the representative of the state, and the subsequent forced conversions that resulted from his experience, made it absolutely necessary for Christians to defend the state.

Jesus' kingdom, to their thinking, had now become a physical reality complete with a Christian at the top. Meaning, I guess, that what Jesus said was no longer a valid principle: (Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. ) For if Jesus' kingdom now had a physical representation, then that kingdom needed defenders to keep the barbarians at bay... and you know the rest of the story... wars can be justified, forced conversions mandatory (it's for their own good!), and if you were not a part of the state, you were outside the kingdom.

You would have thought that the reformation would have continued the way it started (a return to the tenets of the early Church,) but even they were enamored with the concept of a Christian state, leading to the martyrdom of those who refused to accept that concept.

Oh well, just keep looking to Jesus, He's our example and He's our Lord!

Have a great day!
William


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392387 is a reply to message #392385 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
william
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Sue C and Bekah wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 13:12

Yes, William! (Meaning, how are we to live out Jesus' commands?!)

How should Christians live?!!

I usually ask my dh what to do (hypothetically) because he can cut right to the heart of issues better than me.

Sue



Men are usually better at that!! <grinning, ducking, and RUNNING!)


There's never enough time to do Satan's bidding...
Re: Poll for William [message #392402 is a reply to message #392387 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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william wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 03:18

Sue C and Bekah wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 13:12

Yes, William! (Meaning, how are we to live out Jesus' commands?!)

How should Christians live?!!

I usually ask my dh what to do (hypothetically) because he can cut right to the heart of issues better than me.

Sue



Men are usually better at that!! <grinning, ducking, and RUNNING!)


Aaah William - you're lucky you ran away about an hour before I found this post! Laughing


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392403 is a reply to message #392329 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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william wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 00:51


If someone punched you in the face, and the Lord Jesus spoke in your ear saying "turn the other cheek." Would you?

If someone, using the wonderful government (that God ordained,) sued you for a thousand dollars, would you offer the rest of your bank account to him?

While in court being sued (in the above example,) would you decline to swear an oath?

If spouses never committed fornication, would Christians never divorce?

If you looked with lust upon another, are you guilty of adultery?

If your eye was the root of your sin problem and you could solve the problem by plucking it out, would you?

I'm fully aware that the hand or the eye isn't the sin problem, but to me, Jesus is saying that we should be willing to do anything to maintain a right relationship to Him.



I believe He is saying that because we will never be able to perfectly fulfill the above we will never be able to maintain a right relationship to Him. His whole message is that based on our performance (how "good" we are - how much of the law we adhere to) we can not maintain a right relationship to Him.

Quote:

All of the above answers should be based upon whether or not our heart is willing to do what the Lord requires. Anything less, makes us no better than the heathen:


Isn't that the whole point? We are not better than the heathen. We are not - nor ever will be - heart-perfect. In order to even attempt to be completely "right" with God we would have to pluck out our eye, turn the other cheek (no matter the circumstance), never call our brother a fool... "be perfect (as He) is perfect". And we can't be that clean without Christ's blood covering our transgressing hearts. Then, through His power, we will be able to live in ways we hadn't been able to before. And those new ways will include the above list - not perfectly, but more Christ-like than we would be able to live without Him as Lord. I'm sure different ones of us have been fairly successful at keeping one or more of the above. Does that make us "better" than the guy who fails? Only in man's eyes - not Gods.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 March 2008 14:36]


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Poll for William [message #392510 is a reply to message #392041 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
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William's questions for some reason made me think that we only have the grace to obey in crisis when we are in that crisis.

Imagining myself not letting anger or violence take me over in seeing an innocent person attacked is difficult for me.

Imagining Jesus whispering in my ear telling me to turn the other cheek makes it easier to understand I could obey him him in a moment of a crisis.

I knew a missionary lady who was captured in Albania for handing out Bibles and threatened in a horrible way by officials. One guy spit in her face and she said that in that moment an overwhelming love took her over and she felt no anger for this man.

That ended up saving her life because the guys were so taken aback by her response.


I should focus on Jesus and what he would do not my own flesh which is mighty weak!

[Updated on: Sun, 30 March 2008 17:53]

Re: Poll for William [message #392541 is a reply to message #392403 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Janice T. wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 04:33

We are not - nor ever will be - heart-perfect.

And we can't be that clean without Christ's blood covering our transgressing hearts. Then, through His power, we will be able to live in ways we hadn't been able to before.


I thought this was what we were talking about - no-one is suggesting that they are perfect (except perhaps William but that was another thread) at least, no one is suggesting that being nonviolent is the same as being perfect.

What we are talking about is our best understanding of the commands Jesus gave us to follow - if we love him we will (try to) keep his commands. I fully acknowledge that this can only ever be done with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but since we are all Christians here, we all have that!

The fact that we may not be able to live all this out perfectly, this side of eternity, doesn't (IMHO) let us off trying. It would (again IMO) be "cheap grace" if we just accepted Jesus in our hearts and never made another effort of mind or body ever again while waiting for perfection in heaven. I believe we have much more to do here on earth first, which is nothing to do with earning salvation or favour in God's eyes (or men, for that matter) but is all about "doing the good works God has prepared in advance for us to do".


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392593 is a reply to message #392541 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
~Janice  is currently offline ~Janice
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elizabby wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 19:14

Janice T. wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 04:33

We are not - nor ever will be - heart-perfect.

And we can't be that clean without Christ's blood covering our transgressing hearts. Then, through His power, we will be able to live in ways we hadn't been able to before.


I thought this was what we were talking about - no-one is suggesting that they are perfect (except perhaps William but that was another thread) at least, no one is suggesting that being nonviolent is the same as being perfect.

What we are talking about is our best understanding of the commands Jesus gave us to follow - if we love him we will (try to) keep his commands. I fully acknowledge that this can only ever be done with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but since we are all Christians here, we all have that!

The fact that we may not be able to live all this out perfectly, this side of eternity, doesn't (IMHO) let us off trying. It would (again IMO) be "cheap grace" if we just accepted Jesus in our hearts and never made another effort of mind or body ever again while waiting for perfection in heaven. I believe we have much more to do here on earth first, which is nothing to do with earning salvation or favour in God's eyes (or men, for that matter) but is all about "doing the good works God has prepared in advance for us to do".




I'm in agreement here. As the Holy Spirit convicts of certain things we change - if we are obedient, basic Christianity. However, I see among Christians such a variety of conviction. Using birth control or not. Home schooling or not. Speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation or not. Praying only over a sick child or getting medical treatment. The list could go on and on. I do believe there is an absolute right answer to all these issues but I don't believe any of us are always on target with what we believe God showed us. The same goes for the passive vs. threat of violence vs. violence. The question of whether we should ever be involved with war, self-defense or being armed at all. It makes a great discussion and promotes thinking - which is always good! But, as strongly as we "feel" our conviction we all will be somewhat surprised by how off mark we were when we come face-to-face with our Savior. We have the Bible to go by and we all need to work out what we believe God is teaching us.

I know that you know all this but just wanted to post it as a little reminder to myself and everyone else.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 March 2008 22:27]


TAKE TIME FOR FRIENDS!

Janice T. ~ CHF member since 09/97 ~
Mom to four - ds 28, dd 26, dd 24 and ds 21 - and wife to my sweet husband Richard.
Re: Poll for William [message #392596 is a reply to message #392593 ] Sun, 30 March 2008 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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Okay, let's turn it around.

Would it be possible, ever, for non-violence to be wrong or actual sin?

And does non-violence relate to one's view of spanking? When a person says never lay violent hands on anyone, is that related to child discipline? I have heard people say: Oh, I love my child too much to ever spank them; that is violent.

And then what do we do with the inspired Word of God that says that if a child needs physical correction and it is withheld, then the parent is hating the child, and actually participating in sending him to his death?

Sherry, who is somewhere in the middle...doesn't hunt...doesn't own a gun, nor does anyone in the family...but appreciates the police, the strong government, the military, military families [thank you!] and all those who give their lives in various ways...who would probably struggle more with quaking with fear over in the corner, than ever having to worry about whether I might hurt someone...but who sees that the problem in Washington, DC seems to be related to only the criminals having guns


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Poll for William [message #392617 is a reply to message #392041 ] Mon, 31 March 2008 01:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mary Jo  is currently offline Mary Jo
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I should not have said I do not the grace to obey. i meant to say I do not have the grace to be in in certain situations until I am in the situation.

Re: Poll for William [message #392669 is a reply to message #392596 ] Mon, 31 March 2008 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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Quote:

Okay, let's turn it around.

Would it be possible, ever, for non-violence to be wrong or actual sin?


I'm still digging around in scripture, but one verse that seems to apply here is Ezekiel 33:6:

But suppose the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people. Then the sword comes and takes one of their lives. He is swept away for his iniquity, but I will hold the watchman accountable for that person’s death.


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Poll for William [message #392938 is a reply to message #392669 ] Mon, 31 March 2008 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
Messages: 5476
Registered: April 2005
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Lisa R. wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 23:12

Quote:

Okay, let's turn it around.

Would it be possible, ever, for non-violence to be wrong or actual sin?


I'm still digging around in scripture, but one verse that seems to apply here is Ezekiel 33:6:

But suppose the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people. Then the sword comes and takes one of their lives. He is swept away for his iniquity, but I will hold the watchman accountable for that person’s death.


I disagree that this is an example of sinful nonviolence - this is talking about being derelict in duty and taking the consequences.

I can't think of any examples of "sinful nonviolence", but then I don't think such a concept exists!

(My other post disappeared <sigh> as my computer keeps eating my posts, but I just said that discipline is NOT violence (usually) and that most parents have no trouble telling the difference. I would not include spanking in a discussion on violence.)


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Poll for William [message #392988 is a reply to message #392938 ] Tue, 01 April 2008 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bwsmith  is currently offline bwsmith
Messages: 1472
Registered: April 2005
Location: Texas
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elizabby wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 19:17

Lisa R. wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 23:12

Quote:

Okay, let's turn it around.

Would it be possible, ever, for non-violence to be wrong or actual sin?


I'm still digging around in scripture, but one verse that seems to apply here is Ezekiel 33:6:

But suppose the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people. Then the sword comes and takes one of their lives. He is swept away for his iniquity, but I will hold the watchman accountable for that person’s death.


I disagree that this is an example of sinful nonviolence - this is talking about being derelict in duty and taking the consequences.

I can't think of any examples of "sinful nonviolence", but then I don't think such a concept exists!

(My other post disappeared <sigh> as my computer keeps eating my posts, but I just said that discipline is NOT violence (usually) and that most parents have no trouble telling the difference. I would not include spanking in a discussion on violence.)



Non-violence may well be sinful -- for we can't know the heart's reasons for the conduct.


You can't run away from trouble. There ain't no place that far. ~Uncle Remus

bwsmith
Re: Poll for William [message #393490 is a reply to message #392387 ] Wed, 02 April 2008 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sue C  is currently offline Sue C
Messages: 2616
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Location: midwest
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william wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 13:18

Sue C and Bekah wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 13:12

Yes, William! (Meaning, how are we to live out Jesus' commands?!)

How should Christians live?!!

I usually ask my dh what to do (hypothetically) because he can cut right to the heart of issues better than me.

Sue



Men are usually better at that!! <grinning, ducking, and RUNNING!)


Smile

My comment wasn't meant as a gender note but a personality and/or how one's gifted note, though some camps may take it as a gender note. Don't.

Sue
Re: Poll for William [message #393491 is a reply to message #392510 ] Wed, 02 April 2008 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sue C  is currently offline Sue C
Messages: 2616
Registered: April 2005
Location: midwest
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Good thoughts, Mary Jo. Thanks for sharing.

Sue
Re: Poll for William [message #393825 is a reply to message #392041 ] Thu, 03 April 2008 15:46 Go to previous message
Rose  is currently offline Rose
Messages: 453
Registered: April 2007
Location: Prince George, BC
Senior Member

I posted that I would turn the other cheek. At least this is what I dearly hope that I would do. I haven't had a chance to get in on the non-violence thread but I just want to say that I too feel that we ought to take Jesus words at face value. Wouldn't it be better to be slapped twice then to possibly sin?

I find the testimony of the persecuted church an amazing example of non-violence. I long for the faith to trust God to execute justice like our brothers and sisters around the world.


Rose - Official Bean Queen

wife of Joel
mom to Faith(5.5) and Paul(5)

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." - Jesus
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