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Home » CHFWeb Forum » HotTopics » Infant and Believer's Baptism
Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382491] Tue, 26 February 2008 17:33 Go to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Infant and Believer's Baptism[ 48 vote(s) ]
1.Something else... 1 / 2%
2.I believe in believer's baptism for some other reason 0 / 0%
3.My church doesn't baptise at all 0 / 0%
4.I believe in infant baptism for some other reason 3 / 6%
5.I believer in infant baptism because it replaces circumcision for Christians 3 / 6%
6.I believe in believer's baptism because it is what my church/pastor/tradition does 0 / 0%
7.I believe in infant baptism because it is what my church/pastor/tradition does 1 / 2%
8.I believe in infant baptism because it is the most Biblical 4 / 8%
9.I believe in believer's baptism because it is the most Biblical 36 / 75%

While I was organizing Evie's baptism (she's an infant, obviously) I got to thinking about infant vs believer's baptism, and WHY people do or believe what they do. So here's a poll on the topic. (I won't be offended if you don't believe in infant baptism - I expect to be in the minority on this issue.)


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382495 is a reply to message #382491 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lucille  is currently offline Lucille
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I was "christened" as a baby (Methodist), but when I was a teen our pastor (Methodist) started emphasizing believer's baptism, so I was also baptized in the pool of our Christian camp.

We chose to dedicate our ds when he was a baby. He accepted Christ when he was about 5 & was baptized in a friend's pool by our pastor (& dh) when he was 15.


Lucille
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382506 is a reply to message #382491 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa R.  is currently offline Lisa R.
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I don't see any examples at all of infant baptism in the Bible. I don't see a statement in there that it replaces circumcision (and if it does, why not just baptize boy babies instead of girl ones?)

In the Bible it always seems to be that people believe and then are baptized. My understanding of scripture is that baptism is a symbol of one's belief and identification with Christ. It appears to be a conscious thing following belief, not a passive thing done to people unawares.

So, I just don't see any support or reason from scripture for baptizing babies.

That's my understanding, but just as you said you wouldn't be offended, so I do not intend to offend, nor to criticize those who believe differently. I just don't see it. Smile


Blessings,
Lisa R.
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382512 is a reply to message #382491 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Linda Lee  is currently offline Linda Lee
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"Both" would be my answer, but I don't have a lot of time on my hands these days to explain. I will venture to say that I think it's for all, babies OR believers and that it is a work of God, where faith is administered by the Holy Spirit. I don't look at it as merely symbolic. I respect those who believe differently. Smile


Linda
wife to dearest Tom for 25 years,
mom to Lydia (21), Samuel (18), Logan (13), and Silas (4)
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382514 is a reply to message #382506 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laura in VA  is currently offline Laura in VA
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Lisa R. wrote on Tue, 26 February 2008 18:30

I don't see any examples at all of infant baptism in the Bible. I don't see a statement in there that it replaces circumcision (and if it does, why not just baptize boy babies instead of girl ones?)

In the Bible it always seems to be that people believe and then are baptized. My understanding of scripture is that baptism is a symbol of one's belief and identification with Christ. It appears to be a conscious thing following belief, not a passive thing done to people unawares.

So, I just don't see any support or reason from scripture for baptizing babies.

That's my understanding, but just as you said you wouldn't be offended, so I do not intend to offend, nor to criticize those who believe differently. I just don't see it. Smile




What she said Smile It says again and again 'believe and be baptised'.


So now the Lord says, "Stop right where you are! Look for the old, godly way; and walk in it. Travel its path and you will find rest for your souls. ~Jer 6:16

Everyone can purchase their freedom by having the courage to forgo the perks of dependency.
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382519 is a reply to message #382514 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carrie L  is currently offline Carrie L
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I have read one explanation from a covenant theological point of view that *almost* made sense of infant baptism, but just seemed to need too much insinuation (not sure if that's the word I'm looking for, but I can't think of another). Anyway - what Lisa said. Smile


Carrie

Only three things are necessary to make life happy: the blessing of God, books, and a friend.
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382523 is a reply to message #382491 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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If Jesus is to be our example, I think we would read about Him being baptized as a baby. And, I think it was clear he was immersed as an adult, and not sprinkled.


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382568 is a reply to message #382491 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tracy in Peru  is currently offline Tracy in Peru
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I believe in something to be done at the beginning of a baby's life where the parents make a public declaration.

I believe in something when the person "comes of age". What age that is, would be different for everyone. This *something* is when the person makes a personal declaration of their own.

I believe the most biblical name for the second item, is baptism.

However, I am currently part of a denomination that calls the personal declaration something else, and calls the parental declaration baptism. I married into this denomination and had to spend a lot of time to resolve the issue of semantics in my mind. It was not an easy thing to do. Confused

Call them what you will. I think neither one are a requirement to enter into heaven. The personal declaration is of greater value in my mind, but the legacy of the parental declaration is invaluable in a different way.


In Him--Tracy
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382575 is a reply to message #382568 ] Tue, 26 February 2008 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherry in NH  is currently offline Sherry in NH
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My church does a Dedication...which is really dedicating the parents to raising the child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord...and the rest of the church standing to agree that they will support them.


In Jesus

Sherry from NH
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382599 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 05:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elizabby  is currently offline Elizabby
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Interesting - we have 6 votes for infant baptism, but no posts.

I wonder if a person's view on this depends on whether or not a sacramental view of baptism is taken? If baptism is a *sacrament* then God does something, and the recipient can be anyone - baby, child or adult. If baptism is *not* a sacrament but an expression of obedience, then only a consenting believer or adult can make a meaningful expression of their obedience.

Does that sound right?


Your sister in Christ,

Elizabby

Evie is six, Zoe is four, and Benji is two!

Not online as much these days, contact me through email or my blog if you want to talk to me!
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382610 is a reply to message #382599 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa T.  is currently offline Lisa T.
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elizabby wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 04:47

Interesting - we have 6 votes for infant baptism, but no posts.

I wonder if a person's view on this depends on whether or not a sacramental view of baptism is taken? If baptism is a *sacrament* then God does something, and the recipient can be anyone - baby, child or adult. If baptism is *not* a sacrament but an expression of obedience, then only a consenting believer or adult can make a meaningful expression of their obedience.

Does that sound right?




Yes, that's my view, Elizabby. Baptism imparts grace from God. I believe children need all the grace they can get! So, why not start out a child's life with the graces of baptism? I see it as a gift to the child from their parents and from God.

However, I do take a sacramental view, so others here might not agree. In my denomination, young people are confirmed as an expression of their willingness to continue to walk in their faith (much the same way that folks are baptized when they make a conscious decision to follow Christ in some denoms).


Lisa T.
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382648 is a reply to message #382610 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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Lisa T. wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 06:18

In my denomination, young people are confirmed as an expression of their willingness to continue to walk in their faith (much the same way that folks are baptized when they make a conscious decision to follow Christ in some denoms).



What if they are not personally willing, but are going through the motions because it is something they have to do?

I have known a number of kids over the years that would mention how they were being confirmed because they had to do it for their parents or church required it.


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382650 is a reply to message #382599 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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elizabby wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 04:47

Interesting - we have 6 votes for infant baptism, but no posts.



I would be interested to hear from those who selected the following:

#8. I believe in infant baptism because it is the most Biblical


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382651 is a reply to message #382648 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ReneeL.inMN
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Kim L. from MO wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 07:46

Lisa T. wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 06:18

In my denomination, young people are confirmed as an expression of their willingness to continue to walk in their faith (much the same way that folks are baptized when they make a conscious decision to follow Christ in some denoms).



What if they are not personally willing, but are going through the motions because it is something they have to do?

I have known a number of kids over the years that would mention how they were being confirmed because they had to do it for their parents or church required it.


Likewise, I know of some young people who were baptized because there friends were doing it that year in the lake service Sad

It's a heart condition either way.


ReneeL.inMN
25yos, 23yos, 13 yod I guess I am old enough for adult children.

My stomach hurts, but I still choose joy! :-)

Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382660 is a reply to message #382651 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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ReneeL.inMN wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 07:56

Kim L. from MO wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 07:46

Lisa T. wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 06:18

In my denomination, young people are confirmed as an expression of their willingness to continue to walk in their faith (much the same way that folks are baptized when they make a conscious decision to follow Christ in some denoms).



What if they are not personally willing, but are going through the motions because it is something they have to do?

I have known a number of kids over the years that would mention how they were being confirmed because they had to do it for their parents or church required it.


Likewise, I know of some young people who were baptized because there friends were doing it that year in the lake service Sad

It's a heart condition either way.


Yes, I agree. Too often, we go back to the day someone was confirmed, or baptized as the point to which someone became saved, and they never walked in obedience or bore fruit in their lives. I am afraid that passes along false assurance.

When dh got baptized last year, his believing mom kept hanging onto their family baptism as confirmation of her kids salvation. God specifically revealed to dh that he needed to have a believer's baptism, and when he confessed this as sin, my 9 day panic attack/oppression left immediately. It wasn't his believer's baptism as a means of salvation, it was his disobedience to having it done as an act of obedience.

I think my MIL wants to hang on to the act since all of her children were also baptized that day, and there has been no fruit in their lives in the 18 years that I have known them.


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382667 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kjsa
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Our daughter was both baptized and dedicated as an infant. My husband and I grew up in churches where the former was done, and it was important esp. to my husband. So when we were visiting grandparents, she was baptized in the church he grew up in (and in the dress worn by her great grandmother in 1919!). But because it is in the setting of our church that she is being "raised in the faith" (outside the family setting), we (I)desired to have the dedication as well.

A little unusual maybe, but it worked for us.

I myself was baptized as an infant, and again as a teen (believer's baptism).

One other infant baptism biblical support is the baptism of "households" in the NT.

Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382671 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kate Megill  is currently offline Kate Megill
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The only way I can see infant baptism as a viable option is if the view is this is the parent's promise to raise the child as a believer and that baptism makes them a part of the VISIBLE church. This view also holds that a conversion experience is necessary later in life for that child to then become part of the INVISIBLE church (the real body of true believers).

However, the only time I see infant (well, it doesn't even say infant so this is a stretch) baptism is if a father got saved and was baptized, along with his household. But most of these times it says (or it is implied from the text) that the entire household got saved as well. Beyond that, baptism appears in scripture to be for those who have come to faith. Even John's baptism was for those who came to repentance and those who received John's baptism, if I recall correctly, were baptized again after trusting in Jesus.


In His Joy and Grace,

Kate

Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382672 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lunchlady  is currently offline lunchlady
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I typed in a long reply, but lost it. Hate when that happens. I'm really gonna try and be concise this time!!!

What I wanted to say is that I believe in believers baptism. Recently dh and I re-examined our beliefs in believers baptism and got a better understand of the infant baptism side, but see believers baptism as Biblical.

As far as baptism (new covenant) replacing circumcision (old covenant) as a sign of the covenant, I don't think this is so. In Acts 15, there arose a huge debate between the Jews and the Gentiles over whether or not circumcision was required. At the Jerusalem council, Paul didn't mention baptism as the new sign replacing circumcision AT ALL. While they were at the Jerusalem council settling this matter, I think it would have arose if baptism had replaced circumcision.

The other thing about the baptism of households recorded in the New Testament. It doesn't specifically record baptism of unbelievers. And no infants. I think the Greek language indicates that baptism was by immersion, so I don't think infants would have been dunked. And I don't think it is telling us that unbelievers were baptized.

I think the baptism of households rather than evidence of baptism of unbelievers/infants, instead shows that God works in and through families.

Lisa



Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382700 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kim L. from MO  is currently offline Kim L. from MO
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"Believe and be baptized" seems to be the theme that runs through the scriptures. Infants certainly can't believe.


"....And if your Master’s truth offends the gentlemen to whom you speak of it let them be offended. His name we must confess; of His glory we will continually talk…" Charles Spurgeon
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382772 is a reply to message #382491 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lisa M.
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Dh and I were both baptized as infants as it was the tradition of the denomination in which we were raised. Later, we were baptized again as believers. We have chosen to have our children dedicated as infants and they can be baptized when they believe.


Lisa

Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382813 is a reply to message #382700 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Linda Lee  is currently offline Linda Lee
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Kim L. from MO wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 12:03

"Believe and be baptized" seems to be the theme that runs through the scriptures. Infants certainly can't believe.


John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit while still in the womb. David said he trusted God from infancy (Ps 22:9).


Linda
wife to dearest Tom for 25 years,
mom to Lydia (21), Samuel (18), Logan (13), and Silas (4)
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #382815 is a reply to message #382506 ] Wed, 27 February 2008 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kristy  is currently offline Kristy
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Lisa R. wrote on Tue, 26 February 2008 17:30

I don't see any examples at all of infant baptism in the Bible. I don't see a statement in there that it replaces circumcision (and if it does, why not just baptize boy babies instead of girl ones?)

In the Bible it always seems to be that people believe and then are baptized. My understanding of scripture is that baptism is a symbol of one's belief and identification with Christ. It appears to be a conscious thing following belief, not a passive thing done to people unawares.

So, I just don't see any support or reason from scripture for baptizing babies.





I agree.
Our church does infant dedications. But you are baptized after you make a personal declaration to dedicate your life to the Lord.
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #383496 is a reply to message #382491 ] Fri, 29 February 2008 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tea4two321  is currently offline tea4two321
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I was baptized as an infant and so were the two older girls, and Sofia will be baptized next week. The denomination I belong to believes in infant baptism. Although having said that, the baptism itself is really more of a "dedication". The ceremony is a public profession of faith by the parents, promising to raise the child in the Christian faith. Obviously it is up to the child, once he or she comes of age, to make the ultimate decision of whether or not to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, this takes place by confirmation.


Wife to Nick, mom to Meghan- 15 1/2, Sarah- 11, Sofia- 5 and Joshua- 3
Re: Infant and Believer's Baptism [message #383533 is a reply to message #382491 ] Fri, 29 February 2008 23:05 Go to previous message
Indy Anna  is currently offline Indy Anna
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